Wraptail GT's vs SC Specials

tooold · Feb 13, 2008

Can anyone enlighten me on differences, other than weight? Earlier P-90's vs later? Maple vs. mahogany? Any preferences?

Usual disclaimer for good/bad examples of particular models, looking for general comments, if possible.

j45 · Feb 13, 2008

I've been agonizing over just this. I've been wanting to get my players down to one of each style of guitar and wanted to choose between my P-90 goldtop and P-90 Special for which to keep. If I had to choose one as a my only guitar it would be the wraptail. They seem to be much more powerful and "Les Paul" like. The P-90 Special is a little more "light and airy" sounding....just a hair more towards the Fender side if you use your imagination.

I decided to keep my 1958 TV Special only because it offered a more different sound for my tone pallette. I have a PAF goldtop and the Special is further from it than the P-90 goldtop if that makes any sense. Be careful with the double cuts, the pickup placement on some can really hurt the neck and middle position tones IMO.

To sum it up I find the P-90 Specials to be very sweet sounding guitars. Not as fat and powerful as the goldtops but a little more open and airy. YMMV for sure.

tooold · Feb 13, 2008

Interesting, Kerry. I was just playing my '58 TV Special and comparing it to my R4, which I have set up now with 50's P-90's - the goldtop seems to have more "girth", if that word makes any sense. Obviously, historic vs vintage, etc. The Fender vs Les Paul comparison is a good one, and I've historically been a Fender player until I got on this P-90 kick.

I'm considering doing something to consolidate several guitars into a vintage wraptail - always wanted one. The R4 is nice but doesn't have a lot of personality. The Special is, well, special. So I'm reluctant to give it up but might have to.

Trying to figure out how to make the bath I'll take as pleasant as possible. :hmm

Anje · Feb 13, 2008

I have the exact same feeling for GT wraptail VS Special. Wraptails have a fatter tone, while Specials have more bite, cut and air to the sound, with a little of a Fender "twang" kind of thing happening. Love it
(note: I'm more familiar with DC Specials, don't really know how the SC would compare in general)

rays44 · Feb 13, 2008

Here's my take on the comparisons.

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62149&highlight=P90+shootout

LowE · Feb 13, 2008

I also find my wraptail GT tone fatter than my single-cut Special, as is the neck profile. But what I also love about the GT is the beauty of the guitar itself. The fit and finish, craftsmanship etc is spectacular to me, and very much captures what I love about vintage LP's.

SuperReal · Feb 13, 2008

I have one of each, and they're both great, versatile guitars, but different. The goldtop has a more "refined" sound for jazz or other clean tones and a fat distorted tone. The Special has more "twang" but never sounds thin, and is great for country. It also has a fine distorted sound, a little "ruder" than the goldtop.

One thing I like about the Special is the lighter weight. I don't care so much on a gig, but at home the lighter guitar is easier to pick up and put down many times a day.

The goldtop has a wonderful fat neck, not as fat as some reissues and more C shaped. I thought it was the best ever until I got my Special. That neck is a hair thinner and kind of V shaped and really SPECIAL!

tooold · Feb 14, 2008

Thanks for the replies, this is very helpful. Anyone else?

DrRobert · Feb 14, 2008

Nothing to add, really. I actually prefer the neck pickup on a single cut special for blues, it just instantly sounds right: slightly rolled off treble but powerful enough to distort the input of most amps. The GT never gets quite that rude, it's more polite although more flexible overall I'd guess. I'd try and find a way to keep both if it were me...

Rev.WillieVK · Feb 14, 2008

FWIW

I have had much more fun with the '50s wraptail GTs I've played; the few '50s Specials I've played weren't that special

maybe to clean or 'nice' or something.

:salude

uOpt · Feb 15, 2008

tooold said:
Can anyone enlighten me on differences, other than weight? Earlier P-90's vs later? Maple vs. mahogany? Any preferences?

Usual disclaimer for good/bad examples of particular models, looking for general comments, if possible.

Be aware that 2001+ single cut specials have P-100s (the stacked humbuckers in P-90 format), not P-90s. I haven't seen anyone liking them.

That also means the pickup routes are deeper, which might cause a less tight fit for real P-90ties.

davidd · Feb 15, 2008

uOpt said:
Be aware that 2001+ single cut specials have P-100s (the stacked humbuckers in P-90 format), not P-90s. I haven't seen anyone liking them.

That also means the pickup routes are deeper, which might cause a less tight fit for real P-90ties.

WRONG!

RickN · Feb 15, 2008

uOpt said:
Be aware that 2001+ single cut specials have P-100s (the stacked humbuckers in P-90 format), not P-90s. I haven't seen anyone liking them.

Since the originator of this thread posted in the Vintage section, I suspect he wasn't particularly referring to any of the guitars that would have come with P-100s... Post-2001 guitars may be a little beyond the time frame he's asking about. :hmm :hee

tooold · Feb 15, 2008

Dr. Vintage said:
Since the originator of this thread posted in the Vintage section, I suspect he wasn't particularly referring to any of the guitars that would have come with P-100s... Post-2001 guitars may be a little beyond the time frame he's asking about. :hmm :hee

Yep, Rick, I was thinking more about the differences between a '54 P-90 and a '59...

RickN · Feb 15, 2008

tooold said:
Yep, Rick, I was thinking more about the differences between a '54 P-90 and a '59...

I'll share my experience with them, and there are people with much more vintage P90 experience than I...

The old P90s varied just like the original PAFs did. There are probably some generalities that could be drawn, but from what I've experienced, the wood they're installed in has MUCH more to do with how they sound than anything... no 'news' there. A while back, I had a friend's '59 double-cut Jr. spending the winter with me out here in the desert. The electronics measured out roughly the same as the ones in my '57 sunburst single-cut Jr. (meaning values of the pots and pickup), but back-to-back, the '59 definitely sounded 'woolier' than my '57... it's the wood.

If you're interested in P90 guitars of that era, here's my advice: GO GET 'EM! I've got a lot of experience with P90 GTs, and with Jrs., but very limited experience with Specials... I've only had any real quality time with one... but like RevWillie, it just didn't 'do much' for me. It's kind-of like an in-between guitar in my mind. The Jr. has its own vibe, and I love my '56 GT. I suppose there are Specials out there that would rock my boat... and maybe I'll play one some day.

I have this theory that part of what gives the all-mahogany Jr. its "something special" is that the P90 is hard-mounted to the body via its dog-ear mounts. The P90s in the Special aren't mounted like that. Yet, a Goldtop, with essentially the same electronics as a Special, has a stellar track record for tone. My theory is that the maple/mahogany body of the Goldtop makes better use of the soap bar P90s than the all-mahogany body of the Special. The geometry of the body and the size of a dog-ear mounted pickup doesn't allow for it, but I have wondered what a Special with two dog-ear P90s would sound like... :hmm (I think too much sometimes... :rofl )

Jumping@Shadows · Feb 19, 2008

Im currently building a kinda 'franken-special' out of a 1960 SC Melody Maker and two '52 P-90s built onto dogear base plates. All the parts were salvaged so the costs were negligable. Im currently gigging the husk with an old Antiquity in the neck and a SD Phat Cat in the bridge and its far cooler than you would expect- what started out as a little whim may leave me with a really great, light weight, singing little axe. I opted for the dog-ears mounts to save further routing and in reverence to my re-fin blonde '65 330 and its black P-90s..and hopefully the MM will blossom even more with the old P-90s :dude:
Parts are still in the post but i will of course suppy pics on completion.

wooderson · Feb 19, 2008

My theory about why the Jr sounds so special is because it only has one pickup, which means half (actually, less than half) the magnetic pull on the strings.

If someone has a spare Special lying around, this theory should be easy to test. I sold mine. Kinda dumb, as it produced some great jazz tones.

uOpt · Feb 20, 2008

wooderson said:
My theory about why the Jr sounds so special is because it only has one pickup, which means half (actually, less than half) the magnetic pull on the strings.

If someone has a spare Special lying around, this theory should be easy to test. I sold mine. Kinda dumb, as it produced some great jazz tones.

I have tested that theory by holding an unmounted pickup (Strat pickup with magnet polepieces for maximum pull) very close to the strings while I playing with the right hand and the mounted bridge pickup. I didn't hear any effect from the additional pull, neither on sound, nor on sustain.

It is my opinion that people mistake the nonlinear distortions you get when you raise a pickup closer and closer to the strings for magnetic pull. These distortions are a result of the distorted view of the pickup on a perfect swing of the string, and they occur without the string itself doing anything differently.

That doesn't say whether there are additional sound or sustain changes from the string doing anything differently due to magnetic pull. As I said, a first test indicated to me there is not. However, I will re-run that test under more scientific conditions, and record to a computer that displays waveforms, so that I can look directly at the decaying harmonics with and without additional magnetic load to see what happens to sustain.

The Boz 56 · Feb 26, 2008

j45 said:
Be careful with the double cuts, the pickup placement on some can really hurt the neck and middle position tones IMO.

To sum it up I find the P-90 Specials to be very sweet sounding guitars. Not as fat and powerful as the goldtops but a little more open and airy. YMMV for sure.

Which DC Specials do you think sound better Kerry? I've heard more of the earlier versions sound better - weak neck joint and all. The p/u placement of the later version makes a stronger neck but in your experience which one sounds better?

MapleFlame · Feb 26, 2008

Love my 59 Special and I love my 57 Special. The 59 has hotter pickups. My 57 can play the hell out of the Allman Bros. 59 just has great rhythm and really clear note separation. 57 just cranks it out. With Curt Mangan strings Stainless sounds like a 52 Tele like J45 says.

Wraptail GT's vs SC Specials

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