Frustrated, Confused...

Yardbird Mac · Feb 18, 2014

Over the past few weeks I've posted a few things in regard to simple upgrades I've done to my 2003 Les Paul Standard. I even put a set of Historic pickup rings on it. I like the feel and acoustic resonance of this guitar (in spite of it having a 60s neck). It's a little on the heavy side, but that's OK to a point.

I'm at the "crossroads" (pun intended). I've got the hardware situation dialed in to my liking, but I have the following dilemma. I don't think it likes the gain channels on on my MESA/Boogie Express 5:50 (non +) combo unless I run it with an extension speaker (23" LoneStar single 12" Celestion Black Shadow). The extension cab seems to mellow it out a bit. This problem does NOT exist when I play it through my 5:50+ head and cabs. It sounds full and rich. The "problem" does not exist at all with my 2004 R9.

I realize that no matter what upgrades I do with the Standard, it will never be the same as my R9 (that's a given), but I would like to get the Standard a lot closer in tone. As much as I've tried adjusting pickup heights - pole pieces etc. it isn't working for me. There was one day last week that I thought I finally had it dialed in. Well, that was with my head/cab(s) setup. I just can't seem to get the BB Pros to sound good with the MESA combo or even my DRRI.

I have to backpedal on that one. The BB Pros sound "usable" on clean settings, not so much with "crunch" or higher gain settings until I get it into much heavier gain (and that's not my style).

So, do I...

#1. Sell it or trade it off on something else (even a different brand - Corsa, PRS, Carvin, etc. or even another Historic if a good enough deal can be made).
#2. Continue to throw $$$ at it in pickups (ditch the BB Pros) and upgrade the associated electronics etc.

Suggestions welcome.

I need something that sounds good when I go out to jam with some folks locally or travel long distances. I use the R9 mainly for recording purposes so it seldom leaves the house. My Strat isn't the answer. I'm thinking about letting it go eventually.

Nobi · Feb 18, 2014

option 1
maybe a used R8

nevizzzy · Feb 19, 2014

3 words, it's the wood.

Yardbird Mac · Feb 19, 2014

nevizzzy said:
3 words, it's the wood.

I think you may be correct,* and it's funny how that works out. Unamplified, my Standard has great sustain. Amplified, it's just OK, nothing special. My R9 on the other hand sounds dull and lifeless unamplified, but when plugged in, watch out!!!

*Perhaps a fourth idea... short neck tenon.

zoommutt · Feb 19, 2014

I did not like the BB Pros on my 2002 Standard so I tried different pickups. Now I hear all sorts of harmonics and with uncovered Timbuckers and RS modern wiring it weighs about 8.5 lbs. But I also don't have a Historic, so maybe your Standard will always be looked down on. Nothing wrong with a great Standard's wood.

djangolad · Feb 19, 2014

As they say; You can't make a silk purse from a sour's ear.

JJC · Feb 19, 2014

What is it about using it with gain that you don't like? Harsh, ice-pick sound? Sustain? If it's the bite or harshness, you could try a 57 Classic in whichever position you use the most - they typically have a mellower sound and would be just about an even swap buying and selling on eBay. If that doesn't work, nothing lost and you can work on your next option.

Triplet · Feb 19, 2014

Try stepping up a gauge in strings

MapleFlame · Feb 19, 2014

Try it through a different amp. Not all guitars sound good on one amp.

MCHolley · Feb 19, 2014

Well, my 2 cents and I have shared my feelings over the years...

I had many Les Paul's from '79 through 2001....and that was the first time I got a Historic Custom Shop Gibson. WOW. The Gibson USA's we're still fine guitars, but not nearly in the same league FOR ME. To some, it's all good. But when played acoustically or through my amps, the Historics changed the game. I then sold off over time, or traded them away except for one, as it had a nice fat neck, so I kept it. I have never looked back. Those guitars served me well and we're my tools for years, but it would never go back.

So, in a nutshell, I tried what you did on some, making them as close to a Historic or Vintage specs, didn't work. So I moved on, and never happier.

Best of luck!

Mark

Pat Boyack · Feb 19, 2014

MapleFlame said:
Try it through a different amp. Not all guitars sound good on one amp.

Agreed. Mesa Boogies....ugh.

Yardbird Mac · Feb 19, 2014

Pat Boyack said:
Agreed. Mesa Boogies....ugh.

Actually, I ditched all but one FENDER (and it's going to find a new home) in favor of both Express 5:50s.*

The following is a test I did this morning and the results:

"I just finished doing a little test with my 3 guitars , my MESA Express combo and my DRR!. Here's what I'm thinking:

#1. The Strat sounds good with my 2011 FENDER DRRI.
#2. The Strat sounds great with my MESA Express 5:50 (non plus) combo.
#3. The 2003 Standard sounds horrible through the DRRI.
#4. The Standard is usable (both clean & distorted), but not great through the MESA.
#5. The R9 through the MESA (on all channels - clean and overdriven... All I can say is WOW!!!
#6. The R9 through the FENDER DRR!... meh, OK but not what I'm looking for.

I've got 2 more things I'm going to do with the Standard before I throw in the towel. I've got a FABER bridge on its way and once that gets here I'll try some different strings etc. If there is no significant change for the better, both the DRRI and the Standard are going to find a new home.

I've given serious consideration to the MANALISHI pickups (sound good on the clips I've heard), but... I think I'm not going to throw much more money at this thing."

'Still undecided though.

*These fit my playing style.

thejaf · Feb 19, 2014

Sounds like the wood. I had a 2001 standard plus that was beautiful and played really well, but sounded flat no matter what I did (pickups, hardware, etc). I've found it best to have a close bond with one guitar rather than luke warm attitude towards many.

Yardbird Mac · Feb 19, 2014

thejaf said:
Sounds like the wood. I had a 2001 standard plus that was beautiful and played really well, but sounded flat no matter what I did (pickups, hardware, etc). I've found it best to have a close bond with one guitar rather than luke warm attitude towards many.

I think that's true. I just had a really disappointing solo practice session and when I dial the spikiness out, it sounds flat (no bottom end girth).* The more I play the R9, the more it blows the Standard away.

I'm going to try one more thing in the next day or so. The new FABER toneLock bridge should be here and I'm actually going to go down one gauge in strings (either Ernie Ball or D'Adario 9s.) I'm starting to develop a mental block toward this guitar and I find myself fighting the strings.

For all of those MESA haters out there, the R9 works well with the 5:50 combo!

Elmore · Feb 20, 2014

If you like the way the guitar looks and feels, keep it! Electronics are a huge part of it. Put in 500K CTS audio taper pots, Jensen paper in oil caps, and some great PAF clones. I predict it will sound at least as good as your historic. Picture how you would feel about a week later if you sold it. Would you regret it? I would beef it up and put on aged nickel hardware. Age it yourself. I have done this. Yeah!

chaz498 · Feb 20, 2014

50's wiring (with pot and cap upgrades), decent pickups (Bareknuckle, Lollar, Fralin, etc.), and maybe a bridge or tailpiece upgrade will make a huge difference. If you like the feel and look of the guitar I would not dump it till you have tried this.

Good luck!

Aloha_Mark · Feb 21, 2014

A good amp is a costly proposition, and pickups can get you involved in an endless chase for the right pair for the guitar in question. Try a new pedal instead, preferably auditioning the equipment in a store. The Wampler Ace Thirty can give your guitar a subtle tonal improvement. A Klon Centaur or Klon KTR may reshape the tone to your liking. Last, but not least, an old Damage Control Liquid Blues pedal may be just the trick to get your standard sounding as good as a Historic.

Yardbird Mac · Feb 22, 2014

Aloha_Mark said:
A good amp is a costly proposition, and pickups can get you involved in an endless chase for the right pair for the guitar in question. Try a new pedal instead, preferably auditioning the equipment in a store. The Wampler Ace Thirty can give your guitar a subtle tonal improvement. A Klon Centaur or Klon KTR may reshape the tone to your liking. Last, but not least, an old Damage Control Liquid Blues pedal may be just the trick to get your standard sounding as good as a Historic.

This afternoon I installed a FABER Complete ToneLock System and went from 10 - 46 to 09 - 42 gauge strings (the jury is still out on that one, my hands aren't very strong*). I'm starting to look at pickup options. I don't really want to go over $300.00 for a set of P'ups if I don't have to. If I get new P'ups, pots, caps etc. I'll have to farm the guitar out for those upgrades. I'm dangerous with a soldering iron. I had a stroke 5 years ago and even though my guitar playing has improved a little, it's kind of difficult for me to work on stuff that requires decent hand/eye coordination.

Except for my FENDER DRRI, my amps are channel switchers and as time goes on I find myself using fewer pedals. I'm down to 2 delays (both digital and analog) and an analog stereo chorus. If I'm using the MESA Express combo I will occasionally throw a 10 band EQ into the mix.** I also have a TC Electronics tuner on my pedalboard.

* The action and feel of my R9 is so good that I have no strength issues at all using 10 - 46 gauge strings and I get the exact tone I'm looking for with that guitar.

** My Express + has a built in graphic EQ as well as a parametric EQ so my bases are covered in that respect

Kris Ford · Feb 22, 2014

Are you using the heavy or light TP?

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