What year did Gibson move the pickup on SC Juniors?

Brownie · Feb 22, 2012

They moved it a wee bit further from the tp, as I'm sure everyone here knows. I used to know the answer, but my memory...well, ya know.

buyusfear · Feb 22, 2012

Brownie said:
They moved it a wee bit further from the tp, as I'm sure everyone here knows. I used to know the answer, but my memory...well, ya know.

I'm not sure that it was the pickup that was being moved and not the studs.

I should have measured, but when I have my '56 Junior alongside my buddies '55 Junior (the better conditioned one), you can see that there is more space between his treble stud and the pickup, as well as the tailpiece sits closer to the stud, whereas my Junior's tailpiece is quite off the stud, as the treble stud is closer to the neck.
So I'm not sure there is a definitive time frame.

1955

1956

55 upfront

56 up front

I'll measure them next time they're in the same room.

John Smolakis · Feb 22, 2012

They had to have moved the pickup, because if they moved the studs it would have changed the scale length. I think the change occurred in early '56, although I could be wrong about the specific timeframe. But it was sometime around then.

Tom Wittrock · Feb 22, 2012

It was further away in 1954 than in 1955. :hmm

John Smolakis · Feb 22, 2012

FWIW I have a '56 Junior that has the later-style spacing.

buyusfear · Feb 22, 2012

MBrown said:
They had to have moved the pickup, because if they moved the studs it would have changed the scale length. I think the change occurred in early '56, although I could be wrong about the specific timeframe. But it was sometime around then.

The stud can be moved forward, and still have the same scale length, after adjusting the tailpiece back to where it would have been before moving the stud. Were not talking inches.

Like I said, My 56's stud, is closer to the pickup then the 55's stud. And if you look close, both guitars are set up, with correct intonations for 10's, and the 56's tailpiece is wayoff the treble stud, unlike the '55's tp.

And, my 56 had super short anchors, another thing '56's apparently didn't have..

zombiwoof · Feb 22, 2012

buyusfear said:
The stud can be moved forward, and still have the same scale length, after adjusting the tailpiece back to where it would have been before moving the stud. Were not talking inches.

Like I said, My 56's stud, is closer to the pickup then the 55's stud. And if you look close, both guitars are set up, with correct intonations for 10's, and the 56's tailpiece is wayoff the treble stud, unlike the '55's tp.

And, my 56 had super short anchors, another thing '56's apparently didn't have..

Yours may be an early '56, before they changed the bushing length. I guess I should check my '56 Jr., and see how long the bushings are in it.

Al

mbowen · Feb 22, 2012

Here are 1954--1955--and 1957 JR'S--the 1955 a TV.On mine 54 is closer than 55 and 57 is moved a good bit.I would think 1956 is when the larger move came.Mike B.
1954

1955

1957

John Smolakis · Feb 22, 2012

buyusfear said:
The stud can be moved forward, and still have the same scale length, after adjusting the tailpiece back to where it would have been before moving the stud. Were not talking inches.

Oh ok, I see what you mean. That probably makes more sense, tooling-wise.

LiamH · Feb 22, 2012

Towards the end of '56 as I've always been told, but it seems to coincide with the introduction of the TOM in some weird way. I always thought they just moved the pickup, but I now know they moved the TP bushings as well. The whole lot was moved closer to the nut, but the pickup was moved further than the bushings. The guitars after the move of the bridge intonate much better, and suffer from less stud lean. But my best sounding one has the early bridge and TP position. Coincidence? Who knows!

Liam

[Edit: Buyusfear's Juniors are good examplars of the compromise we face. The early ones intonate nicely on the high E, but the low E side ends up wound all the way out. Wraptail GTs are much the same. On the later guitars (like his '56) we all seem to end up with the low E intonating nicely, but on the high E side the wrapover bridge is so far back on the stud it looks like it might fall off. Such great guitars I can live with all the quirks!]

DANELECTRO · Feb 23, 2012

These are all 1956 Juniors

The studs stayed in the same place. The pickup and the inner curve of the pickguard were shifted upwards.

MapleFlame · Feb 23, 2012

DANELECTRO said:
These are all 1956 Juniors

The studs stayed in the same place. The pickup and the inner curve of the pickguard were shifted upwards.

100% correct. The position of the wrap studs couldn't be moved due to such little adjustment of the allen screws. If you change one, the other would have to as well.

LiamH · Feb 23, 2012

MapleFlame said:
100% correct. The position of the wrap studs couldn't be moved due to such little adjustment of the allen screws. If you change one, the other would have to as well.

The studs moved. Do I expect you to believe me? Not really. Do I care? Not so so much of that either. But I've got a pile of Juniors and a tape measure that say they got about 1.5 mm closer to the nut some time in '56.

This is a really unpleasant forum at times.

Liam

MapleFlame · Feb 23, 2012

LiamH said:
The studs moved. Do I expect you to believe me? Not really. Do I care? Not so so much of that either. But I've got a pile of Juniors and a tape measure that say they got about 1.5 mm closer to the nut some time in '56.

This is a really unpleasant forum at times.

Liam

Gibson used a metal template to drill the stud hole positions. It almost looked like a T but with the top angled for the scale length angle. Part of the difference and tolerances were from person using it. You can see different tailpiece locations even on Burst, as well for ABR-1 positions. I personally don't see where anyone called you out or was disrespectful. There's a lotta members who have tons of wraptail guitars as well and you know I have several. Please relax, it's not a big dealio.

gilapagostortois · Feb 23, 2012

I don't know the answer, but the information is in Danelectro's post.

Liam's post, suggests to me that the studs were very likely moved.

If you capture Danelectro's photo, (it will probably help to rotate it 90 or 270°) and blow it up like crazy, (even larger than 1/1 scale. If your monitor allows), although it will be out of focus... Pick either or both sets of photos that are shot from similar angles (don't worry, they're close enough) that have both the short and long stud/pickup gap. Measure from the middle of the last fret to the front edge of (let's say the treble) stud, or any two points of your choosing, involving the last fret and a stud... And the information will be there. I'm not seeing a lot of stud lean in these photos, but with even a little bit, I'm sure it will still work.

Liam, in the likelihood that you don't know, is (I believe) an engineering professor (if I didn't knock that down... I staggered it) or something like that at university in England. I imagine the boy knows how to use a tape measure.

gilapagostortois · Feb 23, 2012

Top row, second from left and bottom row, far right

Top row, third from left and bottom row, center

They moved 'em.

Or, I suppose I could've just measured a few of my own... But you know... Worlds laziest man and all...

J.D. · Feb 23, 2012

Whatever the case, I believe this change happenned sometime in '56 :jim

gilapagostortois · Feb 23, 2012

me too.

year of the fruitcake

eace2

59gibson · Feb 23, 2012

gilapagostortois said:
me too.

year of the fruitcakeeace2

me three

DANELECTRO · Feb 23, 2012

This shows how the contour of the pickguard changed to accommodate moving the pickup away from the bridge. The steel plate is a routing template that I made exactly per the pickguard of a 1957 Junior. Underneath it is a 1955 Junior for comparison.

What year did Gibson move the pickup on SC Juniors?

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