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Woody tone captured on a Historic?

electricwally

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May 15, 2013
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123
I've listened to my favorite album for decades titled, "The Allman Brothers Band at Fillmore East". In regards to the song, "Stormy Monday", I have listened time and time again to this one particular note that defines what I believe to be the tone typically categorized as a "Woody/Open Bark". It's my favorite "note" on the whole album.

Please go to 4.44 on the run-time link below and listen to Duane as he completes a phrase and ends on this note. Hope you've got good speakers :) The sound is unmistakeable and it is different from every other note in his solo in terms of tone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDhR1R3S0s

Obviously there are lot's of variables that come into play here including "Duane himself, his Marshall 50 watt, the partial open back Marshalll cab loaded (I believe) with JBL's and of course his '58 burst.

Has anyone been able to capture anything close to this type of tone on their historic LP? If so, curious what your rig consists of. Also interested to hear what your opinion may be as to what aspects of Duane's 58 burst may be the contributing factor to the above mentioned tone or timbre located at the 4.44 spot on the run-time.

Thanks Guys


Duane with his '58 and '59

9020698258_694850fc40_o.jpg
 
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TM1

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I know what you speak of.. there are a couple of things to know. Duane only used JBL's in his Fender Twin. His cabs used a combination of Celestion Bass speakers-30 watters and Cerwin-Vega(just known as Vega's at that time) ER-123's. His Marshall Bass heads (model #1986) used 6CA7 tube's most of the time which sound very different from Mullard EL-34's. Duane also used Fender "Rock`n Roll Strings" #150.
Dickey was the only one that used JBL D-120's for every show. Duane would on occasion, use one of Dickey's cabinets, but that was more common in the early days.
The pickups in the Cherryburst (which was the only guitar Duane used on the Fillmore LP) were rewound while he still owned the Goldtop.
So take all this into consideration..
 

steve(UK)

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Duane used modified, partially open backed Marshall 4 x 12 cabs loaded with Cerwin Vega ER123 speakers. The speakers are a kind of JBL copy but with a smaller aluminium dome and hence, not quite so much of a bright, 'metalic' Dickie Betts sound. Coupled with the Marshall 50 - as opposed to the Fender amp - the sound was both dynamic and contemporary. Yeah, it screams and sustains...
 

Wilko

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That is called "honk"--specifically "nasal honk"
 

goldtop0

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All of that track has the woody honk..........really something else and just love it:2cool

Thanks for posting electricwally.
 

electricwally

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May 15, 2013
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....The pickups in the Cherryburst (which was the only guitar Duane used on the Fillmore LP) were rewound while he still owned the Goldtop. So take all this into consideration..
TM1, Great info. Thanks! Yes, many factors. Just curious because I've never heard that "honk" anywhere else. It just sounds great! A real "hollow/woody sort of bark"

I spent awhile searching for a photo of The Allman Brothers backline as viewed from behind the stage (around 1970). It was a black and white pic I found on the net. Just can't locate it. They had Marshall heads and a Fender Twin onstage and you could clearly see the speakers in the "partially opened" Marshall cabs. Not sure who was playing thru what but it was a fantastic picture! Showed their whole gear. I'll try and locate it.
 

electricwally

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Duane used modified, partially open backed Marshall 4 x 12 cabs loaded with Cerwin Vega ER123 speakers. The speakers are a kind of JBL copy but with a smaller aluminium dome and hence, not quite so much of a bright, 'metalic' Dickie Betts sound.

Steve, that's interesting. I always thought the speakers in his Marshall cabs were JBL D-120's. Yes the Cerwin Vega ER123's sure look similar. Thanks for the speaker info.
 

electricwally

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May 15, 2013
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Minibucker, now you've got my attention! That was the best cover of Duane's note-for-note Stormy Monday solo I've ever heard. Can't believe I missed that on youtube. I can usually tell within 5 seconds if someone's going to nail it. By God that was fantastic. His phrasing, dynamics were spot on.

I recently joined this forum this past May and still trying to figure out whose-who on this forum. Not sure who "Ed A "is but he plays very well. Thanks for the links.
 
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dretot

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only pic I could find.
<a href="http://www.freewebproxy.com/"><img src="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/xekkt.jpg" alt="Free Web Proxy"></a>
 

electricwally

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May 15, 2013
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dretot, YES that's one of them! Great find! There was another pic of the same day that panned most of the gear. I just gotta find it. Showed the whole backline from behind. Look at the Marshall cab in the pic that you posted. Sure looks like JBL D-120's (especially the aluminum tag that is located around the vent hole. That's a JBL looking tag, unless The Cerwin ER-123's copied that as well).

I just reconed a pair of D-120's not too long ago. My first Twin I ever purchase came loaded with D-120's. Sold it decades ago, now I have a '67 blackface twin with stock Jensen's (reconed of course). Can't do much with it unless i'm playing outside :) Great find in regards to the pic!
 

Minibucker

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Lovely tone... not a Historic.

electricwally,
I have not heard that tone from a Historic... yet. There may be some out there, but (imo) that dry/honk/bark woody tone comes from the wood... old growth wood.

dre

I have a feeling that Ed... could probably do that or very close with a Historic as well. My guess is that the majority of that tone (on the appropriate guitar/amp of course) comes from the player.

That said, in a lot of comparisons I've heard, the older/original guitars do seem to have some more 'bloom' or woodiness. But I think that you can still get most of it with newer historics if you play it right.
 

dretot

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Mar 24, 2003
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I have a feeling that Ed... could probably do that or very close with a Historic as well. My guess is that the majority of that tone (on the appropriate guitar/amp of course) comes from the player.

That said, in a lot of comparisons I've heard, the older/original guitars do seem to have some more 'bloom' or woodiness. But I think that you can still get most of it with newer historics if you play it right.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, just wanted to point out to the OP that the clips were not done with a Historic.

I do agree with you to an extent. You can get close, lets say 95%, for the sake of argument, but that extra 5% I have not heard in a Historic.

Nevertheless, I love the tone Ed's getting in those clips.

cheers,
dre
 

electricwally

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May 15, 2013
Messages
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Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, just wanted to point out to the OP that the clips were not done with a Historic.

I do agree with you to an extent. You can get close, lets say 95%, for the sake of argument, but that extra 5% I have not heard in a Historic.

Nevertheless, I love the tone Ed's getting in those clips.
I was listening to Ed's "Stormy Monday" cover solo and waited for that similar "honk" as mentioned at the 4.44 mark in the "Fillmore East-Story Monday" link mentioned above. I didn't hear it and wasn't expecting it due to the fact that all the variables mentioned earlier (by other members) need to be lined-up in order for it to happen. But man-o-man can Ed play!
 

markguitar

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Nov 27, 2001
Messages
2,368
I know what you speak of.. there are a couple of things to know. Duane only used JBL's in his Fender Twin. His cabs used a combination of Celestion Bass speakers-30 watters and Cerwin-Vega(just known as Vega's at that time) ER-123's. His Marshall Bass heads (model #1986) used 6CA7 tube's most of the time which sound very different from Mullard EL-34's. Duane also used Fender "Rock`n Roll Strings" #150.
Dickey was the only one that used JBL D-120's for every show. Duane would on occasion, use one of Dickey's cabinets, but that was more common in the early days.
The pickups in the Cherryburst (which was the only guitar Duane used on the Fillmore LP) were rewound while he still owned the Goldtop.
So take all this into consideration..

Don, Real American big bottle 6CA7 power tubes didn't exist until 1970 or a little later so Duane could have only used them for about a year before he died. Anything else prior labeled as a 6CA7 would still be a European tube of some kind.
 
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