Which do you think are the most important tonal qualities of a good Les Paul?

[Wizard1183]

Fallacy for some maybe, but all the historic Les Pauls (except one) that have made me pull out my wallet in the last 20+ years have been constructed of arrow straight wood grain. The one exception is my chambered R8, which has a tiny bit of swirl to some of the grain. But, well it's chambered. Your mileage may vary.

Well to each their own? However you’d never pick it out in a band setting. Theyd all sound the same no matter which one you played. It could be a Gibson USA and you’d never hear the difference

 

[thejaf]

Well to each their own? However you’d never pick it out in a band setting. Theyd all sound the same no matter which one you played. It could be a Gibson USA and you’d never hear the difference

That is very true. Same argument could be used to say we don't need our historics at all, as an Epihone or Kay would sound near enough the same from an audience member at 1:30am. But we, as artists with so much practice time and money spent, we want inspiration and the tone in our heads, which may likely make us play better. Which, of course would be heard by said audience member. Gotta go split wood now while the sun is shining (no pun intended).

 

[renderit]

I wasn't aware LP's had tonals.

However I use fingernals to play them and like them short and thick.

 

[RocknRollShakeUp]

Some of these qualities can easily be fixed, no? Rubbery sound (lack of definition) ? Pickup height adjust (usually too high). Dead spots along the neck, truss rod/neck relief adjustment (usually too much relief). Not loud acoustically, new strings and raise the action a little. Nut slots are not always perfect from the factory, saddles sometimes have a rough groove or a metal burr hanging. Most need some fine tuning, and after playing it 10 years (or if you move to a more humid or dry place) it will most definitely need adjustments. Elementary my dear Watson.

I think this is where a lot of people miss the boat. I am tempted to say that the effects of a proper Set Up are criminally under rated for some reason - too boring a topic maybe.
I’ll go out on a limb (a pretty short limb in my opinion) and say that a proper set up is way more important than “old wood,” weight, etc.

I’ve turned somewhat splatty, indistinct, low sustaining, dead-ish, sounding guitars into Ringing Heavenly RocknRoll Twang Harps by tightening truss rods, raising the bridge to compensate, and adjusting pickups.

Regarding acoustic loudness, I like acoustically loud electric guitars but my loudest ones acoustically don’t necessarily sound the best amplified.

The loudest unplugged guitar that I have is in fact a 2003 junior shaped Melody Maker.
It’s obscenely loud and I’ve seen this in the thin bodied Melody Makers…
The second loudest unplugged guitar that I’ve ever had was a Special.
In general I think the thinner body Gibsons without a maple cap seem to be noticeably louder acoustically.
I’m suspecting that it’s because of the thinner bodies that are allowed to resonate and vibrate more, also unimpeded by the denser less resonant maple cap.

Plugged in though, for me, the less acoustically loud, thicker, denser maple cap Les Pauls seem to sustain more.
From a Physics point of view, I wonder if it’s because their bodies act more like a solid electric guitar body should do, and in fact deflect the string energy from the body, reducing body/wood resonance, thus keeping the string vibrating longer over the pickups.

 

[bursty]

all of my Les Paul type guitars sound a bit different, one to the other so, that's a good thing IMO.

I'm glad they offer a variety of tonal nuance.

 

[Bryansamui]

You can hear the tone from wood grain? Lol

I can't hear the tone from wood grain or the top. However, many have better ears than mine and possibly can?
Eric Johnson claims he can hear the difference between a Duracell 9v battery and an Eveready!

What I have done however,was replicate Ritchie Blackmores "Made in Japan" STRATOCASTER sound with my Les Paul using a 1971 Strat pickup in the neck with a 250kPot into a Marshall Major.
No Wood change on a Les Paul can make that dramatic a tonal shift.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

I can't hear the tone from wood grain or the top. However, many have better ears than mine and possibly can?
Eric Johnson claims he can hear the difference between a Duracell 9v battery and an Eveready!

When amplified? Placebo effect totally. The slightest shift in gain or EQ on amp, let alone speakers, will be such a huge difference comparitively let alone wall voltage etc that no one can possibly hear a difference in an amplified guitar with different grain.
Do a blind taste test. 9v alkaline is 9v alkaline.

 

[Bryansamui]

When amplified? Placebo effect totally. The slightest shift in gain or EQ on amp, let alone speakers, will be such a huge difference comparitively let alone wall voltage etc that no one can possibly hear a difference in an amplified guitar with different grain.
Do a blind taste test. 9v alkaline is 9v alkaline.

I'm with you. I can't hear a difference with batteries. .Pickups (Front end) and Speakers/Amps(Back End) by far and away shift tone the most.
I have a Knockabout $300 Les Paul copy with some Jimmy Page replica pickups.That cheap guitar nails his 1973 tone at Madison Square Garden.
My Custom Shop Les Pauls with custom buckers cannot do that sound.

 

[Minibucker]

Just with any guitar, I can't just pick one. I think it's more about response and interaction...if you feel you can make the guitar talk/sing at will, then you'll love whatever unique tonal characteristics that particular guitar has. Generalizing Les Pauls, I'd maybe say some body in the mids that acts like a 'springboard' to the notes ('bloom', I guess), and then the lows and highs there on tap under your control rather than so dominant that it's there no matter what.

But then again, I could say the same for a Strat for that matter, and you just embrace the particular characteristics of those guitars and pickups. I.e., not beholden to just playing more Strat-conducive stuff or LP-conducive stuff.

 

[Wizard1183]

Just with any guitar, I can't just pick one. I think it's more about response and interaction...if you feel you can make the guitar talk/sing at will, then you'll love whatever unique tonal characteristics that particular guitar has. Generalizing Les Pauls, I'd maybe say some body in the mids that acts like a 'springboard' to the notes ('bloom', I guess), and then the lows and highs there on tap under your control rather than so dominant that it's there no matter what.

But then again, I could say the same for a Strat for that matter, and you just embrace the particular characteristics of those guitars and pickups. I.e., not beholden to just playing more Strat-conducive stuff or LP-conducive stuff.

Wood don’t mean a thing. Vintage Les paul like green kossoff. Nope. Just need the amp and a himbucker pickup guitar. That’s it

 

[programmer]

Wood don’t mean a thing. Vintage Les paul like green kossoff. Nope. Just need the amp and a himbucker pickup guitar. That’s it

Yes, the himbucker is important. But don't discount swirly backs for more complex tones. The build up of harmonics in those curves. One of these is not like the other.

 

[AA00475Bassman]

What ever tone your guitar has , your techniques are the main link in your tone chain !

 

[JASIII]

It ALL makes a difference. Pick, strings, pickups, wood (both body and neck), tone caps, cabling and signal chain, amp, speakers, and ESPECIALLY the player all add tiny amounts of character to the tone that add up and together can contribute audibly to overall tone. People who insist it's an all-or-nothing proposition are full of it. I can't imagine much sadder existence than trying to tell strangers on an internet forum what they can and can't hear. Blows my mind.

 

[rockabilly69]

Truth. Period.

I would go lightly on the "Period". I've heard many that were dead sounding acoustically, that slayed through an amp! My R7 is ridiculously loud unamplified, my R0 isn't. But plugged in, while both are killer sounding, or they would be down the road, the R0 is the rock and roll champ.

 

[Wizard1183]

It ALL makes a difference. Pick, strings, pickups, wood (both body and neck), tone caps, cabling and signal chain, amp, speakers, and ESPECIALLY the player all add tiny amounts of character to the tone that add up and together can contribute audibly to overall tone. People who insist it's an all-or-nothing proposition are full of it. I can't imagine much sadder existence than trying to tell strangers on an internet forum what they can and can't hear. Blows my mind.

So if I send you recordings can you tell me the type of guitar you’re hearing? Can you decipher if I send you 3 clips of 3 different guitars and tell me which one is which? How about if dial the amp to make the tones similar?

 

[Crash]

Most important to me is.
Does it make you play it.
When you pick it up, do you lose time.
If this happens, it's a keeper.

 

[thin sissy]

So if I send you recordings can you tell me the type of guitar you’re hearing? Can you decipher if I send you 3 clips of 3 different guitars and tell me which one is which? How about if dial the amp to make the tones similar?

Are you saying there is NO difference at all, not the slightest, between a telecaster and an ES-330? It might be hard to pick out of recordings, but the difference is very clear for the player.

 

[renderit]

So if I send you recordings can you tell me the type of guitar you’re hearing? Can you decipher if I send you 3 clips of 3 different guitars and tell me which one is which? How about if dial the amp to make the tones similar?

If you want to make them all sound the same you don't need more than one guitar...

Now if you don't, leave the amp settings alone and you should be able to distinguish between them.

 

[Crash]

An ES-330 can make me want to play it.
A Telecaster, not so much.

 

[Guitar Magic]

In response to those that said inherent qualities like a spongy low-end or inferior acoustic resonance, etc. can be fixed by a good setup, I disagree. Not my experience, no two LPs will ever sound the same. Mostly, I disagree with those that say that once you're in a band setting, all these nuances become obsolete - wrong! In my experience, the louder I play on my Plexi, the more prominent these inherent acoustic characteristics get (especially once the whole band starts to play).

I opened another thread where I linked this short clip I made today but it's relevant here too. Here's one of my Traditionals and an R9. Just two LPs out of many for the comparison's sake. I setup my Les Pauls with the same neck relief, string type and height. This Trad and R9 sound extremely different acoustically and plugged-in as well no matter how much I try to bring them closer to each other. The Trad has the edge when I play palm-muted stuff (you can hear this in the unplugged clip clearly, I emphasize it directly in the end side-by-side), the R9 gets buried in the mix when I play chugga-chugga on the low-E. Same pickups, same tailpiece and studs, same wiring. I'm crazy in love with that woody, complex, musical and insanely fat R9 tone but I just can't do anything to it to make those articulate, chest-thumping palm-mutes happen (I welcome any tips btw).

What you hear in the wood gets 10x amplified and pronounced through a classic cranked tube amp. I will post the same riff with my miked up dimed Plexi and you decide for yourself. These two guitars retain their unplugged characteristics when amplified: the R9 sounds 'big, fat, 3D' and the Trad sort of flat and generic but with much more bite than the R9. I'm starting to think that this recent "wood doesn't matter" internet BS has been spread by the boutique pickup makers or small guitar manufacturers who are unable to source proper tonewoods anymore and try to sell their stumpwood guitars at inflated boutique prices to the gullible.