today appears to be a good day to bring some vintage guitars back to the US

[redisburning]

We may experience some discomfort for a year or so but will be better off in the long haul.

:laugh2:

oh well on the bright side pretty soon West Coast American is going to be the fancy English accent.

 

[JJ Blair]

Lowest level since 2009 - Wall Street Journal

Actually, lowest level since 1985 is what I've ben seeing.

 

[Wally]

I started working on trading desks in 1986, and it'll be fine. I'll willingly take a little short-term discomfort for the right to elect and, more importantly, vote out our lawmakers.

God save the Queen.

I hate to ask...but how does this pulling out of the Euro change the British political system? I mean....other Europeans weren't able to vote in Great Britain, right? As far as I understand, you have been voting in a democratic fashion for quite some time now, correct? The evidence of this is this particular referendum, if I understand things.
I won't even mention that a monarchy and democracy are strange bedfellows. I admire ya'll for maintaining the appearances, though. (;^) And....Queenie is going to do just fine no matter what happens to the rest of the citizenry. The ''royal family's" wealth was established long ago....colonial systems are very lucrative for the rulers, it seems.

 

[T.Allen]

Based on who I see in the U.S. saying this is a bad idea, I think it will have good results. This test has never failed me. :hee

Of course, this will be after the dust settles.

Be well our GB friends!

 

[redisburning]

Based on who I see in the U.S. saying this is a bad idea, I think it will have good results. This test has never failed me. :hee

Of course, this will be after the dust settles.

Be well our GB friends!

itt: "it's ok that reality disagrees strongly with me, I'll just pretend it'll work out in the future"

 

[Cogswell]

So glad you guys get your country back

 

[goldtop0]

It's a good day to bring AMPS over. :hee

You guys will experience some short term issues, but I think you're better off in the long run. :salude

+1 Back to the Commonwealth that we're all a part of in the Antipodes.

 

[F-Hole]

I hate to ask...but how does this pulling out of the Euro change the British political system? I mean....other Europeans weren't able to vote in Great Britain, right? As far as I understand, you have been voting in a democratic fashion for quite some time now, correct? The evidence of this is this particular referendum, if I understand things.
I won't even mention that a monarchy and democracy are strange bedfellows. I admire ya'll for maintaining the appearances, though. (;^) And....Queenie is going to do just fine no matter what happens to the rest of the citizenry. The ''royal family's" wealth was established long ago....colonial systems are very lucrative for the rulers, it seems.

A few points of clarification:

1. the UK hasn't "pulled out of the Euro". The Euro is a currency, not a political union. Rather, the UK has voted to leave the European Union.

2. the UK leaving the EU will change the British political system because the UK will, after it leaves, no longer be required by treaty to implement EU legislation, created and drafted by unelected EU Commissioners, irrespective of whether this legislation is in the national interest.

3. Only British and Irish citizens (resident in the UK) were able to vote in the referendum, the latter being a right granted to the Irish under the 1922 agreement. Other EU citizens were not eligible to vote on a domestic UK matter.

4. Monarchy and democracy are, in fact, perfect bedfellows. You need to understand the concept of "constitutional monarchy". It's subtle and widely misunderstood, particularly outside the UK. In our case, the monarch (Queen) is granted a suite of constitutional rights (as opposed to absolute rights) that are, by convention, NEVER exercised. The Queen could, for example, sack a government, or recall parliament, or refuse to sign new legislation (royal assent) etc. As said, however, these rights have NEVER been exercised, and never shall be.......which is the thread that holds the entire fabric of our democracy together. This is why you will never find the monarch commenting on political matters, as the monarch is seen (and acts) above politics.

5. The national wealth of the monarch is vested in "The Crown" through an act of parliament. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Estate

 

[Rangy]

A few points of clarification:

1. the UK hasn't "pulled out of the Euro". The Euro is a currency, not a political union. Rather, the UK has voted to leave the European Union.

2. the UK leaving the EU will change the British political system because the UK will, after it leaves, no longer be required by treaty to implement EU legislation, created and drafted by unelected EU Commissioners, irrespective of whether this legislation is in the national interest.

3. Only British and Irish citizens (resident in the UK) were able to vote in the referendum, the latter being a right granted to the Irish under the 1922 agreement. Other EU citizens were not eligible to vote on a domestic UK matter.

4. Monarchy and democracy are, in fact, perfect bedfellows. You need to understand the concept of "constitutional monarchy". It's subtle and widely misunderstood, particularly outside the UK. In our case, the monarch (Queen) is granted a suite of constitutional rights (as opposed to absolute rights) that are, by convention, NEVER exercised. The Queen could, for example, sack a government, or recall parliament, or refuse to sign new legislation (royal assent) etc. As said, however, these rights have NEVER been exercised, and never shall be.......which is the thread that holds the entire fabric of our democracy together. This is why you will never find the monarch commenting on political matters, as the monarch is seen (and acts) above politics.

5. The national wealth of the monarch is vested in "The Crown" through an act of parliament. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Estate

6. The United Kingdom - as we know it - is no longer united and will fall apart. In 10 years there won't be a United Kingdom anymore. There will be England, Scotland, Wales and possibly a united Republic of Ireland and Northern ireland. According to some Londoners there will even be a London Republic but I really can't see that happening.

I don't live in the UK but my father is British and my uncle lives in London and I have been following the entire debate closely. This is a catastrophe the Brexit-voters have not seen coming. It will have a huge impact on Britain and Europe in the next couple of years and definately not all for the better, especially not for Britain.

 

[F-Hole]

6. The United Kingdom - as we know it - is no longer united and will fall apart. In 10 years there won't be a United Kingdom anymore. There will be England, Scotland, Wales and possibly a united Republic of Ireland and Northern ireland. According to some Londoners there will even be a London Republic but I really can't see that happening.

I don't live in the UK but my father is British and my uncle lives in London and I have been following the entire debate closely. This is a catastrophe the Brexit-voters have not seen coming. It will have a huge impact on Britain and Europe in the next couple of years and definately not all for the better, especially not for Britain.

Some curious comments there.

The Scots understand full well that they will be unable to maintain their current level of government spending, as a newly independent state, with an oil price anything lower than $100/bbl, and even then it's a close run thing. Oil it currently at half that level. Scotland would be broke without generous subsidy payments from England. It really is that simple. Had Scottish votes tipped the balance toward a remain outcome, the English would have accepted that and moved on. It's a sad reflection on Scottish politicians that the reverse isn't true, as is evidenced by their behaviour.

Wales, as a whole, voted to exit the EU, or did you miss that. And that's despite Wales being a net recipient of EU funds.

Ireland simply cannot afford to "adopt" Northern Ireland, it's in a very precarious position. Like Scotland, NI receives very large subsidies from England, and it's simply unthinkable that Eire would step into the role of benefactor. In short, that why reunification didn't happen years ago, simple economics.

If Germany chooses to have a large body of it's law proposed, drafted and passed in Brussels rather than in Berlin, then good luck. The United Kingdom decided that it would rather not, despite the likely cost.

I suspect that the disintegration of the EU will continue, if for no other reason that the EU Commissioners are, seemingly, incapable of change. Junker seems hell-bent on behaving like a petulant child, threatening the UK with an economic plague of locusts. Again he fails to grasp that the majority of people are indifferent to his ridiculous commentary.

The UK, and particularly England, has never really seen itself as "European". We call it the "continent" for a reason. We are delighted to be firm friends, good neighbours and honourable trading partners, but we simply do not trust continental European politicians when it comes to "ever closer political union". It's as simple as that.

You really weren't watching very closely.

 

[Reno_1ted]

Speak for yourself. Or at least, speak for your generation. Most people my age and below feel European. We're not as old and sceptical.

Its important when reading this to know there are two sides, the vote was close and younger people very much voted in favour of remain. So let's not generalise the whole country based on one side.

 

[Reno_1ted]

This also really should be moved out of this area of the forum.

 

[F-Hole]

This also really should be moved out of this area of the forum.

Perhaps add some substance to your position rather than empty diktats.

 

[F-Hole]

Speak for yourself. Or at least, speak for your generation. Most people my age and below feel European. We're not as old and sceptical.

Its important when reading this to know there are two sides, the vote was close and younger people very much voted in favour of remain. So let's not generalise the whole country based on one side.

I doubt you'll see the irony in juxtaposing "speak for yourself" with "most people of my age".

I've only recently turned 50, hardly the core "out" demographic. Moreover, I've lived and worked on three continents, married a foreigner, lost my virginity to a black girl, and my best friend is gay. That should stem any view you may hold that I'm a proto-fascist xenophobe.

The "younger generation" may well have voted to remain within the EU, but if they did so then it was in small number*. The turnout amongst the 18-24 cohort is reported as being the lowest of any age cohort. In a nod to our Gallic cousins, and as Guisot not-so-famously said, "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head".

As for being sceptical, you are probably right. I remain unconvinced that having legislation foisted upon us, in any form, by an unelected body is wise. I also probably have more to lose than most. Houses on Kensington garden squares are hardly well bid at the moment, and will now likely remain so for some time. My vote wasn't cast on the basis of narrow self-interest.

I would have been delighted to remain part of an EU trade group. However, ceding sovereignty in the name of "ever close political union" is a step too far for the majority of British peoples, QED.


* the data of votes placed by age cohort is not yet available, so the views above are based on polling, which has been shown to be highly unreliable. As you would say, "let's not generalise".

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

I voted with gritted teeth...literally.

I don't consider myself a little Englander, am neither racist nor xenophobic, my friendships span the world. I abhor right wing politics..period.

But I do believe in the Sovereignty of Parliament more than the dubious nature of Federal political union.

There is a price to pay in this world for holding a position, any position. I hope we can balls this out.

 

[F-Hole]

I voted with gritted teeth...literally.

I don't consider myself a little Englander, am neither racist nor xenophobic, my friendships span the world. I abhor right wing politics..period.

But I do believe in the Sovereignty of Parliament more than the dubious nature of Federal political union.

There is a price to pay in this world for holding a position, any position. I hope we can balls this out.

I suspect our politics are vastly different, but I will defend to the death your right to hold and voice your political views and your access to a democratic process that allows them to prevail should the majority agree with you.

 

[Reno_1ted]

Perhaps add some substance to your position rather than empty diktats.

Im merely saying this thread has little if anything to do with vintage guitars.

Also not sure why you think I'm accusing you of racism? The only single point from your post I quoted was that England doesn't really see itself as European. I certainly do not believe every leave voter is a bigot.

You seem grumpy. Cheer up, you won. :spabout

 

[F-Hole]

You seem grumpy. Cheer up, you won. :spabout

I don't think anybody won, other than perhaps democracy.

 

[sws1]

I don't think anybody won, other than perhaps democracy.

And the Americans looking to import vintage Marshalls from the UK.

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

I suspect our politics are vastly different, but I will defend to the death your right to hold and voice your political views and your access to a democratic process that allows them to prevail should the majority agree with you.

Therein lies the rub..we may have different political positions, but we remain countrymen bound by the same ideas of the sovereignty of our Parliamentary legislature.

Imagine, for no other reason than context and a bit of fun, if the recent referendum would have posed a different question; whether to take this country into the EU as a hitherto independent Nation. I wonder how that would have gone? Either way I would have respected the majority decision of my countrymen and women, and gotten busy in the democratic framework we enjoy to change it wherever possible, if I disagreed.

Politics is a dirty and dangerous business, it has to be, it's often a dirty and dangerous world.

It is a folly to underestimate the resilience of this great Nation.