Questions on Vintage Gibsons and Vintage Epiphones answered by Mat Koehler

[Frutiger]

Got another question for you Mat!

This is prompted by a post S.Weiger made on the 'Custom 69 Almost Inbound' thread about the pickups in 68 Customs and when T-tops started.

From what I can gather/have seen the T-top pickup appears around late 1965 with chrome covers but for gold pickups it seems to be much, much later. I used to own a '67 ES-345 that had PAF spec patent number pickups - short magnets, butyrate bobbins, purple wire, double black output leads, Phillips screws, sharp feet corners, the lot! They were completely original to the guitar. I've seen quite a few other late 60s ES guitars that had purple wire and black/white output leads. The 68 Customs I've seen tend to have pre-T-tops with orange wire and black/white output leads.

My question is, is there a definitive year the gold T-top appears? I'm guessing around late 69/early70 but does that sound too late? And is there a crossover with pre-T-tops?

 

[Frutiger]

Double post!

 

[matkoehler]

Got another question for you Mat!

This is prompted by a post S.Weiger made on the 'Custom 69 Almost Inbound' thread about the pickups in 68 Customs and when T-tops started.

From what I can gather/have seen the T-top pickup appears around late 1965 with chrome covers but for gold pickups it seems to be much, much later. I used to own a '67 ES-345 that had PAF spec patent number pickups - short magnets, butyrate bobbins, purple wire, double black output leads, Phillips screws, sharp feet corners, the lot! They were completely original to the guitar. I've seen quite a few other late 60s ES guitars that had purple wire and black/white output leads. The 68 Customs I've seen tend to have pre-T-tops with orange wire and black/white output leads.

My question is, is there a definitive year the gold T-top appears? I'm guessing around late 69/early70 but does that sound too late? And is there a crossover with pre-T-tops?

Yes that all sounds right, and as we know the factory moved through gold plated components much slower. I've seen at least one 1965 Gibson with a stock gold-covered PAF, for instance.

But because it was a matter of using up inventory, there would not be a formal production change date (and we have all those records for the 1960s btw ). I'm sure there was some overlap as well. Your guess is as good as mine!

 

[S. Weiger]

Personal question for you Mat: How do you find the time to answer our questions/queries? -Many very good questions, and some very nerdy (I know mine is ).
And a bonus question: Sometimes on the 50's rubberstamped serial numbers, there is a "1" instead of a blank space (in 1959 both "2" and even "3") but it appears kind of not-so-logic as to when this was applied? Is there a rule as to when it occured?

 

[friday]

Hi Mat, construction question. The Gibson LP alone is a beautiful design, shape and construction. I have only recently taken a closer look at neck damage images online which typically rely on the wood grain of maybe less than 2 square inches minus the truss rod cavity area. The cross section has way less area.

Has there been research into strengthening the Gibson neck, headstock area?

(alternative to "Volute")

This is an online image of Gibson neck as example to show the grain only

 

[matkoehler]

Personal question for you Mat: How do you find the time to answer our questions/queries? -Many very good questions, and some very nerdy (I know mine is ).
And a bonus question: Sometimes on the 50's rubberstamped serial numbers, there is a "1" instead of a blank space (in 1959 both "2" and even "3") but it appears kind of not-so-logic as to when this was applied? Is there a rule as to when it occured?

I took my sweet time answering this one! Ha.

Very simple answer to your question -- volumes of ink-stamp-serialized products sometimes pushed the numbering past five digits. So if you see six digits, you can assume it was shipped later in the year or early the following year.

 

[matkoehler]

Hi Mat, construction question. The Gibson LP alone is a beautiful design, shape and construction. I have only recently taken a closer look at neck damage images online which typically rely on the wood grain of maybe less than 2 square inches minus the truss rod cavity area. The cross section has way less area.

Has there been research into strengthening the Gibson neck, headstock area?

(alternative to "Volute")

This is an online image of Gibson neck as example to show the grain only
View attachment 27012

Not sure what or when that image is from but there have been many different eras of headstock angles and grain alignment and volutes and whatnot. If you wanna start in the 'Golden Era' period of the late 50s and early 60s, a 17-degree headstock angle was used and the original rationale was that it created more string tension for sustain and a better break angle over the nut for tuning stability and clarity. Later in the 60s, a 14-degree headstock was adopted. In 1970, a volute was added. None of these changes reduced shipping damage rates. What helped eventually was better cases...Protector Cases for Les Pauls, notably.

In terms of research into strengthening, yes, plenty has been conducted over the decades and to this day. Most recently, legendary Gibson luthier Matt Klein developed the Apex headstock which debuted in 2017 as a way to naturally reinforce that joint with a spine. Very effective. But not well accepted by our audience at all, which is why it only lives within the Custom Shop Modern Collection today.



I have lots of personal opinions on the subject but I think it's best to keep it to the facts, this being a vintage Q&A thread.

 

[jb_abides]

FWIW, I've always liked the Apex and hope to order an Axcess M2M one day.

Let's not get into the snakehead though...

 

[fernieite]

Hi Mat. Could you please clear something up? Do you know what year Jimmy Page's first EDS-1275 was made?

Gibson reissued it in 2007 and called it a '71, i believe.
The MET museum called it a '71, as well.
Jimmy Page's gear book lists it as a '68.
And Gibson has just released 50 replicas in 2024, but call it a '69.

I imagine the 2024 listing it as a '69 is correct, right? We're you guys able to check any records to verify? You also had it in hand and were able to see the serial number and pots, I imagine?
Shipping ledgers, too...

Thanks man!

 

[matkoehler]

Hi Mat. Could you please clear something up? Do you know what year Jimmy Page's first EDS-1275 was made?

Gibson reissued it in 2007 and called it a '71, i believe.
The MET museum called it a '71, as well.
Jimmy Page's gear book lists it as a '68.
And Gibson has just released 50 replicas in 2024, but call it a '69.

I imagine the 2024 listing it as a '69 is correct, right? We're you guys able to check any records to verify? You also had it in hand and were able to see the serial number and pots, I imagine?
Shipping ledgers, too...

Thanks man!

Yes, should be somewhat easy to clear up. The guitar was serialized in 1969 and probably sat on a rack in its whitewood state waiting for an order, since they would have been custom order only at that time. Jimmy ordered it in 1970 and it arrived to him in very early 1971. He first used it live in March of 1971. It made the most sense for us to call it a 1969 as the doublenecks made after that year would have volutes and revised body contours. His is definitely more 1960s in terms of spec anyway.

 

[fernieite]

Yes, should be somewhat easy to clear up. The guitar was serialized in 1969 and probably sat on a rack in its whitewood state waiting for an order, since they would have been custom order only at that time. Jimmy ordered it in 1970 and it arrived to him in very early 1971. He first used it live in March of 1971. It made the most sense for us to call it a 1969 as the doublenecks made after that year would have volutes and revised body contours. His is definitely more 1960s in terms of spec anyway.

Thank you, sir! I appreciate it.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

I got a question regarding an adjacent discussion elsewhere...

I read on here from a user that Memphis spec'd the original Freddie King '60 ES-345 in hand for the recreation. Is this true, as in does a collector or family still own the guitar such that it was loaned to Gibson for the build?