Player 1950's Goldtop on eBay....Mystery Solved

[Tom Wittrock]

Just re-read the thread:

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?198183-Player-1950-s-Goldtop-on-eBay

Not sure I'm seeing where many people feel it isn't much worth saving. Actually I thought it was a good thread with a lot of genuine curiosity.

The thought was that the entire neck was replaced, and some felt that the serial number was suspect.
That made a whole different guitar.
Now it's one of very few, apparently.

 

[CDaughtry]

Does anyone think having a 1956 serial number adds any significant value to the guitar?

 

[hogy]

Does anyone think having a 1956 serial number adds any significant value to the guitar?

Are you talking monetary value, Charlie? My answer is, I don't know.

Does having humbuckers add anything to the value of this guitar as an instrument? Tonally, I think it will diminish it or, best case scenario, make no difference.

Historically, a very rare guitar will be lost and nothing gained.

 

[oldsongs]

Money, money, money.

You're just going to sell it soon anyway, what is the point of making irreversible changes? Buy stuff, modify it for kicks, put it back up for sale, repeat.

Just put a new fingerboard on it and call it a day.

 

[JBLPplayer]

It boils down to ownership.. If it was my guitar.. I would string it and play it as is. Weird fingerboard and all. Just watched the "Three Kings" DVD edit and the 54 wrap tail was the best sounding guitar on the night. Beat the V's and the PAF guitars. Thank you John aka Mingus. With that said it is Jim's guitar and he is gonna do what he wants and has a vision and a pin router. Besides its not like he's converting the Mona Lisa into pottery barn table display..
Jim... Just don't strip it and I'm with you.

Kinda

Hell I don't know anymore. Strange times. :blbros

Joe B

Merry Christmas!!

 

[Reno_1ted]

Not much splits the forum more than a conversion thread !

I am in the "keep the P90s" camp. Not so much for the preservation point, but more the point that it probably sounds amazing! I have a set of '56 P90s in my '69 Les Paul, and I was / I continue to be blown away by them. They will sound so much better than reissue HBs IMHO. The variance in tone is second to none, between the tone and volume pots and the pickup selector, you can create millions of different tones. Its amazing. You should keep them for a little while, see how they sound, crank it up and play in anger. It could well change your mind.

I am also in the camp that this is your guitar, and your choice. :salude

The best of luck, and keep us all posted regardless!

 

[CDaughtry]

Just watched the "Three Kings" DVD edit and the 54 wrap tail was the best sounding guitar on the night. Beat the V's and the PAF guitars.

Merry Christmas!!

I actually thought the 345 was the best sounding of the night...:jim

 

[MapleFlame]

No disrespect, it ain't a 56, and agree, Jim has the right to do what he wants. The Custom replaced board is an oddball.
It's going to be worth more as a conversion, unless an original donor board goes to it. Even that is in question.

 

[boogieongtr]

The thought was that the entire neck was replaced, and some felt that the serial number was suspect.
That made a whole different guitar.
Now it's one of very few, apparently.

Are you talking monetary value, Charlie? My answer is, I don't know.

Does having humbuckers add anything to the value of this guitar as an instrument? Tonally, I think it will diminish it or, best case scenario, make no difference.

Historically, a very rare guitar will be lost and nothing gained.

I went thru my parts drawer and have all the correct parts to restore this guitar. To restore the guitar to 100% accuracy it would need the following: replacing the fingerboard, binding, inlays, side dots, 56 harness, pots, switch ring, switch tip, jack plate and all but 1 backplate screws, pickguard screws, jackplate screws, truss rod screws, strap buttons, refin back of neck and stamp on the S/N it came with. That's a few $$ added to the $15K cost of the guitar. Now what do we have at the end of the restoration? After reading Steve & Franks post about the route for the pu screws this raises a question is this guitar a real 56? Did the guy running the OH router at Gibson in 1956 use the same bit for the pickup routes and route for the pickup screws? Franks 56 is a stop tail & ABR1 this one a wrap tail. Did Gibson use a different bit for the wrap tail than an ABR1? Bottom line is the guitar a true 56? Is the S/N correct? The tail piece bushings in this guitar are taller than any 54-55 Goldtop I have worked on. So does that make it a 56? These are the questions you would have to overcome trying to sell this restored guitar. Add to that the terrible neck/body joint.

I believe the guitar left the factory like this but had lacquer built up in the joint. The guy who did the refin didn't care about how the joint looked. You can see there has been no movement in the neck from the pic below.

It boils down to ownership.. If it was my guitar.. I would string it and play it as is. Weird fingerboard and all. Just watched the "Three Kings" DVD edit and the 54 wrap tail was the best sounding guitar on the night. Beat the V's and the PAF guitars. Thank you John aka Mingus. With that said it is Jim's guitar and he is gonna do what he wants and has a vision and a pin router. Besides its not like he's converting the Mona Lisa into pottery barn table display..
Jim... Just don't strip it and I'm with you.

Kinda

Hell I don't know anymore. Strange times. :blbros

Joe B

Merry Christmas!!

Thanks Joe B. Many think I paid too much for the guitar but my thinking was this. Originally I wanted a 57-58 goldtop or a Snatch knock off. I could buy Eric Johnson's 58 for $138,000. or a couple of 57 on the internet for $75-$90. or this one for $15K add the parts and my labor and have close to the same thing for around $23K.

 

[boogieongtr]

No disrespect, it ain't a 56, and agree, Jim has the right to do what he wants. The Custom replaced board is an oddball.
It's going to be worth more as a conversion, unless an original donor board goes to it. Even that is in question.

Hey Steve, thanks. for your input. Just posted my question about the originality of this being a 56.

 

[MapleFlame]

Hey Steve, thanks. for your input. Just posted my question about the originality of this being a 56.

Jim, the Custom board kinda looks like the ones from the the 70's. The nibs and fret size. I'm trying to figure out if it was done at Gibson or a luthier did it. Yes the long Bushing were not in the earlier Goldtops, but may have been replaced. If you pull them, would love to see a picture. The top bottom and groves will be the tell tail sign. Thanks for sharing this, you know I love all of it

 

[geddy402]

Outrage? :bigal

Tell me CD. Exactly how many original 56 wraptail Goldtops have you seen? :hmm


Of course, if it is only about money, then ... :rolleyes

Thats the part I don't get. If it's about money it doesn't make sense to convert it, does it? Like CD said they sell in the low teens. He bought it for $15k according to the final bid. He can do whatever he wants with it, but if he's looking to make money I don't really see how unless I'm way off on the price of conversions.

 

[jimmi]

Does anyone think having a 1956 serial number adds any significant value to the guitar?

If you were convinced it was real, maybe. Would have to be the only 56 wrap tail ever made.

i doubt it is real. To me looks like a poor ish repair of some sort. I would keep it as a p90 guitar but don't think it is a huge crime to convert it.....I would keep the original gold finish though.

 

[jimmi]

Thats the part I don't get. If it's about money it doesn't make sense to convert it, does it? Like CD said they sell in the low teens. He bought it for $15k according to the final bid. He can do whatever he wants with it, but if he's looking to make money I don't really see how unless I'm way off on the price of conversions.

Good conversions without breaks can sell close to $20k if they have a good original top and they are burst finishes. Have not seen goldtop conversions sell that high except for original ABR 56-57s that were converted. There was a 57 refin that went for 16k last year.

 

[jimmi]

It boils down to ownership.. If it was my guitar.. I would string it and play it as is. Weird fingerboard and all. Just watched the "Three Kings" DVD edit and the 54 wrap tail was the best sounding guitar on the night. Beat the V's and the PAF guitars. Thank you John aka Mingus. With that said it is Jim's guitar and he is gonna do what he wants and has a vision and a pin router. Besides its not like he's converting the Mona Lisa into pottery barn table display..
Jim... Just don't strip it and I'm with you.

Kinda

Hell I don't know anymore. Strange times. :blbros

Joe B

Merry Christmas!!

You have a great wrap tail and you have said you like the tone....why don't you take one on the road and show off what one of these can do?

 

[renderit]

If you were convinced it was real, maybe. Would have to be the only 56 wrap tail ever made.

i doubt it is real. To me looks like a poor ish repair of some sort. I would keep it as a p90 guitar but don't think it is a huge crime to convert it.....I would keep the original gold finish though.

I don't think so.

 

[Tom Wittrock]

... it ain't a 56, ....

.... refin back of neck and stamp on the S/N it came with.

I reread your initial post and cannot find where you said the neck was refinished and the serial number was wrong. You mention that you would have to restamp the serial number it came with.
So, is this an original neck [as I took your statements to mean] or has it been significantly altered, including a fake serial number.
This is very confusing.


Maybe you could post a clear message on exactly what this is, and what it isn't. Since you started this thread I have been under the impression that it is a real 1956 Goldtop with a factory wrap tailpiece.
Please help me understand the truth about this guitar.

 

[Tom Wittrock]

Does anyone think having a 1956 serial number adds any significant value to the guitar?

If it is original, then it has far more value than if it isn't.

Personally, I would find a 56 wraptail GT more valuable than a 54.

 

[jimmi]

I don't think so.

Didn't they stop in 55 and go to all ABR for arched top LPs? I haven't seen one from 56. For sure, there ain't many.

 

[T.Allen]

Didn't they stop in 55 and go to all ABR for arched top LPs? I haven't seen one from 56. For sure, there ain't many.

I agree. I have never seen a wrap tail from '56. But, one thing I have learned is there are not many absolutes with Gibson.