original Burst vs Historic ... Sorry, but...

[Ed Rafalko]

Gaston, you ought to make a trip out to Long island with your Montreal friend and his guitars and give Ed's guitar a comprehensive trial.

 

[Tim]

I've been comparing my 99R9 with light tailpiece and real paf's to the 59 that I hear on Gary Moore's 'Still got the Blues', and I can not hear any difference. I believe the real paf's, light wood, long neck joint, hard lacquer, and light tailpiece make it happen. It really does matter to me how it compares unplugged, it just sounds great when it is plugged in! Also, I can tell the tone has gotten deeper and more resonate after almost two years of playing it, which does add alot to the sound as well.

 

[Tim]

I meant to say it really DOESN'T matter how it sounds unplugged. It is a rough Monday morning.

 

[Ken]

Funny Tim...

I have been playing along with Still Got the Blues lately as well with my Antiquity-equipped R7. I've found that through an overdriven amp with my guitar in the bridge position--vol at 7-8 and my tone at 5-7-- I can nail that tone as well...especially track 8 "Driftin'".

 

[CDaughtry]

Comparison

Here's my two cents:
I own several original bursts and several reissues. I love them all, and play them all about equally.
The original bursts all sound different from one another...significantly different. Thus, there is no "real" burst sound.
All my Historics sound different as well. If I was marooned on a desert island and could only have one guitar, it would be my favorite real burst, but that being said, they are all equally valid in their own way.
Bottom line: Enjoy what you have!

 

[LHakim]

Ken and Tim, to my ears, my Travis Bean (12 lbs, aluminum neck, Koa body, and high output pups) can nail a whole host of classic Les Paul tones when I'm playing along w/ my favorite cds. Assuming my ears aren't too damaged, The only explanation is that the lines of actual tonal differences are blurred when you are comparing the live sound of your guitar, w/ the recorded sound of your favorite guitar hero--plus you have to add the extra coloration you get from the playback system you are playing your cds on. I believe the actual "proof in the pudding" would come from actually a-b'ing the test guitars in the flesh as Gaston did, and Ed R and 60Burst hopefully will get to do. I wonder if sometimes we all attempt to analyse all this stuff along acoustic theories when in reality we should be looking at it from a pyschological-acoustic standpoint.

 

[Tommy Lee]

CD -- best advice "Enjoy what you have"

I agree.

 

[NewOldCokeDave]

CD.. Amen

I also wanted to point out that when listening to and playing against a record versus a live sound, you are getting a processed sound from the record, all eq'd, reverberated, mixed and layered, and then recolored by your stereo/sound system and then percieved by you and whatever anomolies your hearing may have. I think there are too many variables in 1) the physics of the guitars involved and 2) the physics of sound reproduction and reception to make a generalized statement that one type will always be better than another.

Me, I'm keepin' my R9 as it's perfect to me, and does what I feel is an accurate 50's LP sound. I'll leave the real ones to you guys who really want them. And that's cool too!!

-NOCD

 

[Dewey]

...Damn Ed, I'm almost tempted to send my R9 out to you to take with you for a comparison with the real paf's ...tempting..real tempting!

 

[Tim]

Well, I believe that recording Gary Moore's guitar probably degraded the true sound some, but many hold that degraded sound as a basis for killer (the epitome of great) LP tone. If I can sound as good as that recording, I will be satisfied with that (I'm refering to tone here - still working on playing like him). I knew I would get "You can't compare to a recording", and I know this is a very subjective topic. If someone who owns several real bursts says they all sound different, how can using new wood .vs. old wood make that much difference? I know great LP tone not from all the live performances I've been to, but from all the great recordings of it, and I know what it took for me to finally get there.

 

[60burst]

Cdaughtry summed up my opinion also. There are lots of good guitars old and new. I don't know that having an original burst is all of that big of a deal? I rarely take mine out of the case and when I do they still only stay at home. They see no gigs and only some, studio work. NOCD is right when he says the actual sound you hear on the record has had much help from when it leaves the speaker till it eventually comes out on the CD. I record some and sometimes I scarcely recognize the tone I finally wind up with on the finished product.
As far as the PAFs being the key, I don't believe that is true. They certainly play a significant part to the sound but it depends on the guitar they are in. My brother has a 71 Custom with a set of my original PAFs in it and the sound is what you would expect. His Custom is darker sounding, as it should be. It does not sound like an original burst or a goldtop at all to me. PAFs are a part of the equation but not THE part.

 

[Ken]

My only point was that you don't have to spend $1K/per PAF to get some of that tonal juju that you would want a PAF for--just fiddle with the knobs a bit. I like the recorded Moore tone so I dig that I can sort of reproduce it.

Lhakim, you know how I feel about 'em. Beans are great guitars.

 

[Ed Rafalko]

Go on, Dewey- you know the address.

 

[Snags]

Take the same guitar and amp, and switch between a few different players. You will hear different tones from person to person. (Unless it's an Epiphone with Rio Grandes, then it will sound great no matter what...:X)

 

[60burst]

I think you are right Ken. I am only familiar with PAFs really, so I am no expert but it is hard for me to believe that someone out there is not producing a pickup that is as good as a PAF?
One comparison that I have done in recent years was between a PRS McCarty and my 55 goldtop with PAFs. I was really amazed at the difference? The PRS was so far behind there was no race at all. I liked the guitar okay but those pickups (whatever they were?) were definitely not my cup of tea. The tone of the guitar itself was just "new" sounding. A very nice guitar but the difference in guitars was much greater than I had anticipated.

(sorry Snags)

 

[Ramrodrowdyyates]

I've said before...

that the BEST Les Paul should be waiting to be built. We do sorta get into this rut, that the ultimate sound is that of an original burst. I've had one that sounded poor, one that sounded fairly good, and one that is incredible. But I believe that if guitar builders (I'd do it myself but can hardly build a shelf) would get past trying to build the "perfect" replica of a 59 Les Paul and spend more resources and time trying to build a better Les Paul, then we would get one. I refuse to believe that nobody CAN improve on those 40year old Les Pauls, but so far they haven't.

 

[Snags]

Sorry for what? I'm not real crazy about the newer PRS stuff, and the McCartys do very little for me. I'm a wide/thin neck, 24 fret, whammy bar kind of guy. :!

 

[Ed Rafalko]

Since when do you need a whammy bar to play ABBA, Carpenters, and Johnny Cash tunes?

I see you're falling WAY behind on the post count. For shame.

 

[60burst]

Ramrod, I generally agree with just about everything that you say about original bursts with one exception.... I have never played a bad one. I will take you at your word because you know what you are talking about. But I have never run in to a bad sounding one. Do you mean the guitar or was it just funky pickups? I also agree that the best guitar is waiting to be built.

Ed, I think we can make a fair comparison between our guitars no matter what the pickups are. I used to get laughed at years ago when I would buy a guitar without even considering the pickups. Those can come in or out quickly. I want to get the right feel and playability above all else. I have to like the guitar visually. The acoustic tone is also a make or break deal for me. The pickups are some consideration but not the deal maker. Ed, I want to hear the voice your guitar has as opposed to mine? I want to feel the weight and finish. I want to see how the finish on your R9 affects the acoustic tone? I expect your guitar to compare favorably. It will be a fun test.

 

[Snags]

Sorry about the post count, I spent the evening in the company of a very wonderful woman. :dude