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Opinion on this 1959 Zebra PAF?

SteelEdge

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Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
23
Hi all!

I’ve been offered this 1959 Zebra PAF pick up. Can I please have your opinion about authenticity and condition based on the pics?

Both wired behind the bobins are black, but then a white and black cable is attached to these two.

Thanks in advance!
bce2324f-8162-4d0f-b55b-fac6277d7e0a.jpegad02abd4-14be-4720-bc28-53ac5cf44a36.jpeg08d4eed6-d339-4fb1-b7b0-8ff3e2e2356e.jpegcd17dfcb-b18f-4ee0-8fc2-4f2aa35eb8dd.jpeg58254b5f-f599-42e1-8376-14ec340669cf.jpegaa6df09f-e309-4342-8952-3d279243d6d7.jpeg
 

sws1

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Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,857
Sticker should glow under blacklight
ala
bnsv8t5du3bww19wygt1.jpg
 

SteelEdge

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Dec 25, 2015
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23
Thanks for the inputs!

And yes, the pics suck….

The pick ups are coming from a friend I’ve bought stuff before. His tech, well known here in Europe, says they are 100% unmodified 1959 PAF Zebras (7.21 and 8..09).

Both have 2 black wire cables under the bobins, as it should be.

The thing is, one has clearly a missed piece of tape:

58254b5f-f599-42e1-8376-14ec340669cf.jpeg

Also, though they appear to be 100% original, one of the stickers doesn’t glow under black light and the other barely does:

aa6df09f-e309-4342-8952-3d279243d6d7.jpeg0927793a-9407-406f-a5ca-efad9ef63218.jpeg

I hope to have a friend inspecting them tomorrow.

Which is fair market price for a pair of 59 PAF Zebras like these nowadays?
 

S. Weiger

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Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,874
Obviously the tape has been taken off, and new (wrong) tape attached.
My guess is rewound. Orig. PAF? Could be, but I can't tell from your pics. I see L-marks, and sticker looks kinda right, but if they doesn't glow, well..
Need MUCH better high res. close-up pics from every angle, including straight on blacklight pics of tape & sticker.

This is what the tape should look like if original:

humbucker1.jpghumbucker3.jpg
 
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SteelEdge

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Dec 25, 2015
Messages
23
Totally agree.

If the tape has been removed, obviously is because a rewound or a reparation. Maybe there is nothing at all…but seems suspicious to have that piece of tape removed.

The stickers not glowing…I don’t think it is a problem, I’ve seen some originals with the same issue, tape does glow correctly.

They have been identified by a trustable tech as 100% original, and I really think they are, but one of them at least is far from “untouched”.

I want them for my personal use in my 1959 Bartlet, what do you think is a fair price for these accounting on condition?

They work fine and measure 8.09 and 7.21.
 
Last edited:

S. Weiger

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Nov 25, 2002
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Totally agree.

If the tape has been removed, obviously is because a rewound or a reparation. Maybe there is nothing at all…but seems suspicious to have that piece of tape removed.

There is only a fraction of the original tape left. Rewounded, 99.9 % guaranteed!


The stickers not glowing…I don’t think it is a problem, I’ve seen some originals with the same issue, tape does glow correctly.

Stickers MUST glow, just as the tape & white bobbin MUST glow. And the lighter gray tape is wrong.

They have been identified by a trustable tech as 100% original, and I really think they are, but one of them at least is far from “untouched”.

Ok, and who is your "trustable tech" ? The baseplates might be original (-with repro stickers?) , but that doesn't necessarily mean the pickups are..

I want them for my personal use in my 1959 Bartlet, what do you think is a fair price for these accounting on condition?

IMHO a Bartlet does not deserve real PAF's. But that's just me..

They work fine and measure 8.09 and 7.21.
 

SteelEdge

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Dec 25, 2015
Messages
23
Thanks!

Cristal Clear, I agree on your judgment. I’m gonna try to have them sent to a professional here in Spain, who is experienced with PAF and can compare to originals for a final appraisal, but it is clear to me that price won’t be like a perfect untouched set.

If I make an offer, I’d like to be fair since the seller is a nice guy I’ve bought vintage guitars from before, and he is eilling to give me a good buyer’s price.

Expecting to sound right and I like them, how much should be a fair offer for them in your opinion?.

Thanks a lot again!
 

brandtkronholm

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Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,767
I wish the pictures were better. Alas. I'd like to see the tops of the bobbins.

In any event, for a single, all original, fully intact (nickel cover), untouched zebra PAF with standard pole spacing - my best guess is at least $4K USD cash on-the-spot.

For a rewound/altered zebra PAF without cover, standard pole spacing, my "low-ball" best guess is $2K USD.
 

SteelEdge

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Dec 25, 2015
Messages
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I wish the pictures were better. Alas. I'd like to see the tops of the bobbins.

In any event, for a single, all original, fully intact (nickel cover), untouched zebra PAF with standard pole spacing - my best guess is at least $4K USD cash on-the-spot.

For a rewound/altered zebra PAF without cover, standard pole spacing, my "low-ball" best guess is $2K USD.
Thanks!

Here are some more pics.

Since one seems to be rewounded, if the other one is OK and without the nickel covers, guess $5000 would be a fair amount.

IMG_4426.jpegIMG_4432.jpegIMG_4428.jpegIMG_4427.jpegIMG_4431.jpegIMG_4430.jpegd8bf7058-b74f-4216-81b6-67d9512c291c.jpeg00f308de-4b34-45cb-8793-641665ef77f3.jpegbce2324f-8162-4d0f-b55b-fac6277d7e0a.jpeg

61cf9a5f-bb06-48e2-b38f-6ac9f941c505.jpeg
 
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scovell001

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Apr 15, 2016
Messages
122
Just a question 🙋 wasn’t the screw coil nearly always the black one on zebra pafs ?

Apologies if a dumb question!
 

SteelEdge

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Dec 25, 2015
Messages
23
Thanks everybody for all the inputs, really appreciate,

After further inspection and comparing to a real 59 Zebra, these have to many issues to think they are the real thing, so, following a good friend’s advice, I’m gonna pass on these.

Need to find a nice pair of PAFs for my 59 Bartlett , if anyone is willing to sell, please let me know.

Cheers!

Ricky
 

sws1

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Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,857
I'd also ask yourself...are these the ones you want? That's a low output on the one. Low enough, that if it were me, and I couldn't hear them first, I'd pass.
 

scovell001

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Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
122
Thanks everybody for all the inputs, really appreciate,

After further inspection and comparing to a real 59 Zebra, these have to many issues to think they are the real thing, so, following a good friend’s advice, I’m gonna pass on these.

Need to find a nice pair of PAFs for my 59 Bartlett , if anyone is willing to sell, please let me know.

Cheers!

Ricky
Ricky, I think you probably made the right decision 👍 I went through my forensic pictures of old pafs & I’m pretty sure one of the baseplates is real & the other not judging by the label, the tool marks & a few other little details. There’s probably 1 paf there between the two bits possibly.

Anyway good luck with your search, I don’t wanna start a pickup recommendation thread, but, run a pair of sle101+’s in your replica for a while, see what you think…
 

SteelEdge

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Dec 25, 2015
Messages
23
Ricky, I think you probably made the right decision 👍 I went through my forensic pictures of old pafs & I’m pretty sure one of the baseplates is real & the other not judging by the label, the tool marks & a few other little details. There’s probably 1 paf there between the two bits possibly.

Anyway good luck with your search, I don’t wanna start a pickup recommendation thread, but, run a pair of sle101+’s in your replica for a while, see what you think…

Thanks!

Funny you mention it, my Bartlett has fitted a pair os SLE101+, and is tone heaven, really. But still have the itch of trying a couple of good old PAFs. Maybe I’ll do and will come back to the SLE101+’s 😅
 

S. Weiger

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Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,874
Thanks everybody for all the inputs, really appreciate,

After further inspection and comparing to a real 59 Zebra, these have to many issues to think they are the real thing, so, following a good friend’s advice, I’m gonna pass on these.

Need to find a nice pair of PAFs for my 59 Bartlett , if anyone is willing to sell, please let me know.

Cheers!

Ricky
Wise decision.

Also, I'd advice you to look for a more trustable tech.

BTW:
A genuine white 1959 bobbin would glow more pale than the sticker & tape, but should still glow right!
And there is differences to the glow depending on what type / quality of blacklight used.

A 1962 - late 1965 Pat.no sticker humbucker with purple-ish plain enamel wire sounds just as good as a late short mag. PAF.
Only diff. is the sticker, and the price..
Somewhere around 1966 the wire changed to orange coloured polysol, which might make a tonal difference to some. They still makes PAF tone IMO, but then again I'm not so picky✌️:)

Edited for correct timespan.
 
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poor man's burst

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Oct 3, 2010
Messages
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Somewhere in 1963 the wire changed to orange coloured polysol, which might make a tonal difference to some. They still makes PAF tone IMO, but then again I'm not so picky✌️:)
Wire changed to polysol in 1966, not 1963.
Also worth mentioning, the wires coming from the coils were both black, one coming from a hole under the bobine, the other from outside the coil. They changed for one black and one white around '65, both coming from the coil, the white ones connectiong both coils together, the black ones being connected to the output wire and the pickup chassis.
 

S. Weiger

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Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,874
Wire changed to polysol in 1966, not 1963.
Also worth mentioning, the wires coming from the coils were both black, one coming from a hole under the bobine, the other from outside the coil. They changed for one black and one white around '65, both coming from the coil, the white ones connectiong both coils together, the black ones being connected to the output wire and the pickup chassis.
Right, my memory was kinda playing tricks with me.
Anyway those late 1962 - mid 65 nickel cover pat.no HB's are as just good as late PAF's IMO.
 
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