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New '22 R0 Observations

SoK66

Active member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
234
Thought I'd toss out some observations about my fresh as a daisy '22 R0. I'll start by saying I'm impressed by the build quality, the thin finish, the weight, the hardware and overall tone. What I'm not impressed by:
  • The new Historic case. It's a bit thicker than the earlier ones, with a spongelike lining-covered pad at the headstock that's pretty much ineffective at doing anything. The thickness allows for a loose fit inside the case, and the guitar flops around. This may be why when I first opened the case I found that one of the knob reflectors had fallen off. I reinstalled it with a dot of contact cement.
  • The setup was just not good. There was too much relief, the stop tail had been screwed all the way down, allowing the strings to rest on the back of the bridge and tilting it towards the neck. The intonation wasn't even close.
  • Adjusting the truss rod cured the relief issue (not surprised that a newly built guitar needed a tweak.) Raising the stop tail a bit got the strings off the back edge of the bridge allowed the bridge to sit level and killed the odd rattles, too. A session with the strobe tuner dialed in the intonation. In the case of the "A string I had to flip the saddle around to get to the sweet spot. Ther wasn't ONE string that was intonated correctly
Not trying to diss too much, the guitar is awesome, but Gib-O ought to be able to get it a bit better before it leaves the factory. Plus, the retailer has a rep that includes a multi point inspection which missed the obvious. Long term the case issue needs a solution.
 
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jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
4,009
Even though you tweaked to your satsfaction, I recommend calling the dealer with feedback. Maybe Gibson Customer Service as well... They need that feedback to correct things.

Sweetwater sent me a Martin that was downright bad in the set-up, after my Sales Rep took down my requests including installing upgraded ebony pins, and new strings. What I got was not copacetic. I sent it back for a re-do, and it came back done extremely well...

This was an aberration; I've bought my share from them, and their 55-step Multi-Point has been pretty good. Not an excuse for 'misses' -- just remarking on a decent batting average.
 

Adonis Chacha

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
Messages
20
Thought I'd toss out some observations about my fresh as a daisy '22 R0. I'll start by saying I'm impressed by the build quality, the thin finish, the weight, the hardware and overall tone. What I'm not impressed by:
  • The new Historic case. It's a bit thicker than the earlier ones, with a spongelike, lining covered pad at the headstock that's pretty must ineffective at doing anything. The thickness allows for a loose fit inside and the guitar to flop around, which may be why I found one of the knob reflectors had falled off when I first opened the case. Reinstalled with a dot of contact cement.
  • The setup was just not good. There was too much relief, the stop tail had been screwed all the way down allowing the strings to rest on the back of the bridge, tipping it towards the neck. The intonation wasn't even close.
  • Adjusting the truss rod cured the relief issue (not surprised that a newly built guitar needed a tweak.) Raising the stop tail a bit got the strings off the back edge of the bridge allowed the bridge to sit level and killed the odd rattles, too. A session with the strobe tuner dialed in the intonation. In the case of the "A string I had to flip the saddle to get to the sweet spot.
Not trying to diss too much, the guitar is awesome, but Gib-O ought to be able to get it a bit better before it leaves the factory. Plus the retailer has a rep that includes a multi point inspection which missed the obvious. Long term the case issue needs a solution.
Can’t comment on the setup issue (my ‘21 ‘59 reissue that I got back it June was pretty solid right out of the box), though I agree yes the case leaves a lot to be desired. Had to send the first case back because the joints were all defective and wouldn’t close properly (my sales guy said he’s noticed a lot of issues with the newer ones-I started another thread on here about it). GWW is the new brand gibsons been using for the last 2-3 years I believe (made in Costa Rica), vs TKW (made in Canada) which was the older brand they used, which I have for my 2020 black custom, and that case is as solid as a rock. Funny the GGW feels much heavier duty, but guess it doesn’t mean much when all of the other appointments are half assed 🙄 lol.
 

Gino753

Active member
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
150
I had that issue as well with the Lifton Case that came with my 2019 60Th Anniversary R9, in that one of the latches, the outer body of the latch were it snaps into the base that is bailed to the side of the case. (If that makes sense) was not snapped in all the way, so the latch could not swing up all the way too latch onto the top lid of the case.


I fixed it myself by squeezing it in a little to finish forming it

But, yes as much as i love the Lifton case..it does nothing to protect the guitar while traveling.

I am going to eventually buy a couple Gibson USA cases, for this , my 2019 R9 and my 2018 R0.

My Gibson Custom SG Historic 1960’s reissue came with the older style (Black) Gibson Custom shop case, that has thr crushed bergundy interior, and holds the guitar, like the USA cases do
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,349
My ire would be directed at the retail shop as they are responsible for the set up after you made the purchase . Putting that blame on Gibson seems misguided to me as Gibson does there own factory set ups . Now one can wonder after taking delivery from Gibson did the retail shop even open the guitar to do an inspection ? Sure does not sound like it . Best Wishes !
 

1allspub

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
90
Gibson (or Sweetwater, or anyone) can set up a guitar perfectly, but then once the guitar goes into the box and is shipped it’s subject all kinds of environmental variables that can affect that “perfect setup”. So, frankly, critiquing anyone that sets up your guitar (and then ships it to you) is a tough call, IMO. Once it leaves their hands, all bets are off. This is why it’s best to have your setups done locally by a trusted luthier, or learn to do them yourself. Just sayin’....
 

charliechitlins

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Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
538
There is no rule stating that a bottomed out tailpiece and strings resting on the bridge is wrong.
People did this for decades before the internet said it's wrong.
 

Flogger

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
533
There is no rule stating that a bottomed out tailpiece and strings resting on the bridge is wrong.
People did this for decades before the internet said it's wrong.
Actually there is.

Contact from the string will force the bridge forward until the bridge posts bend. It's the cause of the very famous "post lean" that people use double thumbwheels to prevent or correct.
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
4,009
Fiziks: when you add tension while tuning-up, string force on back edge pushes bridge forward toward neck if posts weaken, yes.
 

SoK66

Active member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
234
You never want strings resting on the back edge of an ABR-1 or any other style bridge for that matter.
Gibson (or Sweetwater, or anyone) can set up a guitar perfectly, but then once the guitar goes into the box and is shipped it’s subject all kinds of environmental variables that can affect that “perfect setup”. So, frankly, critiquing anyone that sets up your guitar (and then ships it to you) is a tough call, IMO. Once it leaves their hands, all bets are off. This is why it’s best to have your setups done locally by a trusted luthier, or learn to do them yourself. Just sayin’....
I do my own setups, have for years. I consider it essential for a guitar player to know the basics, just like a horn player knows how to adjust trumpet valves, replace saxophone key pads, etc.

I agree with your comment re: shipping. Setup is the first thing I check on any new instrument, particularly one that has been shipped. In the case of this '22 RO the fact that the guitar is not secured tightly inside the case and can flop around inside it means it felt every bump on the journey from the retailer to my location. The bridge tip towards the prickup was made worse because of this. It had some effect on the intonation being off but not totally. The excessive neck relief may indeed have been impacted by the shipping environment and the guitar bouncing around inside the case. The new Historic cases are a fail in my view.
 

somebodyelseuk

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Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
363
2019 R9 and 2021 R7... the cases are just crap, but most OEM cases are. They're repros of '50s cases, which were probably just as bad. I just find it hilarious how much they cost. Do people actually buy them as after market cases?
The stopbar thing, just like the removing the pickup covers thing and the top-wrap BS. Someone who didn't know what he was talking about told anyone who'd listen that it improved tone, and because he was a bit famous, they believed him. Everyone who makes a Les Paul-a-like screws 'em down, for the same reason.

The guitars are exceptional, by the way.
 

SoK66

Active member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
234
2019 R9 and 2021 R7... the cases are just crap, but most OEM cases are. They're repros of '50s cases, which were probably just as bad. I just find it hilarious how much they cost. Do people actually buy them as after market cases?
The stopbar thing, just like the removing the pickup covers thing and the top-wrap BS. Someone who didn't know what he was talking about told anyone who'd listen that it improved tone, and because he was a bit famous, they believed him. Everyone who makes a Les Paul-a-like screws 'em down, for the same reason.

The guitars are exceptional, by the way.

Having owned four vintage Les Pauls over the years I can confirm the original brown/pink cases were flimsy and by the time I got them pretty much resigned to closet use while the guitar went into something modern and robust. Oddly, my '60 Sunburst had a black/yellow case that was a big improvement, though some would say it was the wrong case. It was indeed the case the guitar was sold with in 1961.
 
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Amp360

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Feb 16, 2012
Messages
450
I have a really nice Gibson Custom black case that I got with my CR4. I’ve seen those brown ones and they’re not as nice, although they’re more correct I suppose.
 

MattD1960

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
613
i have a black custom shop case from a 2008 R8 and i think the 2018 Brown case is a better case overall, i have not seen a brandy new 22' case yet in person but i do think my brown case from 2018 is a better fitting case then the 08 black case
 

golfnut

Active member
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
179
  • The setup was just not good. There was too much relief, the stop tail had been screwed all the way down, allowing the strings to rest on the back of the bridge and tilting it towards the neck. The intonation wasn't even close.
I played an R9 in a music store last weekend and noticed this. Relief was too much as well. I don't know if this is the norm though. I've been on a hunt for an R9 and have been playing everything I can find in music stores and for the most part the set ups have been very good. The R9 I played on the weekend was the first out of about 20 played that I found was a very bed setup comparable to what you describe.
 
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