Need some help with this Junior

[Flying Fish]

Bought this impulsively without thoroughly looking at photos (ugh) and it seems to have some things about it that look right, and others that look wrong. Supposed to be a 58 Junior.

Les Paul Junior Silkscreen:
the ending “l” in Les Paul does not look correct.

“Junior” font looks wrong and the spacing between the letters does not look correct.


I realize that Brazilian RW has very different looks - but this doesn’t look like any board I’ve seen on a 50s or 60s Gibson.

The finish feels extraordinarily thick on the whole guitar- not like anything I’ve handled before.

least important- Speed knobs transitioned out in 55 right? The look like vintage knobs under a black light.

Any insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Flying Fish]

These spots behind the bridge - knew about those - they’re under the finish checking.

 

[Flying Fish]

 

[sws1]

The heel looks small, and from the top, it looks like it may have been out of the guitar. And the silkscreen is wrong (as you say). And it's hard to tell from the pics, but the shape looks strange to my eye. Could it have been renecked with a homemade neck?

 

[poor man's burst]

The Les Paul Junior silk screen, as already stated by the OP and sws1, is wrong. The headstock checking looks very handmade. The nut also doesn't look original, but a replaced nut is not uncommon on otherwise original vintage guitars. The fingerboard rosewood looks more Indian than Brazilian but Brazilian can have a wide range of color and grain. To me, the smell of a freshly scraped or sanded area is the definitive test.
Any pics of the back of the headstock?

 

[garywright]

^ yeah those checks look Murphy’d ..not that this matters At all but the tuner grommets ain’t correct either

 

[DANELECTRO]

I agree with the comments above that the The "Gibson" and the "Les Paul JUNIOR" silkscreen is not original.

The headstock checking was done with an Exacto knife (although that doesn't appear to be Murphy's handwork).

The tuner posts should be raw brass and the tuner grommets should be thin brass sheet metal grommets which have been nickel-plated.

The pickup position indicates it is a 1954-1956 model. In late 1956 the pickup was moved 1/4" farther away from the bridge.

The knobs appear to be from a 1954 or 1955 model.

The heel shape looks identical to that of my 1955 Junior

Brazilian Rosewood can have many appearances, so I can't say that it is or isn't based on the photos. The inlays look correct.

The nut should be made of nylon

South of the nut, everything looks consistent with a 1954-1955 Junior to me, but it has definitely work done on the headstock. Can you post some photos of the backside of the headstock?

 

[garywright]

South of the nut, everything looks consistent with a 1954-1955 Junior to me, but it has definitely work done on the headstock. Can you post some photos of the backside of the headstock?

your junior has a similar fingerboard/fret radius ?..also, I’ve seen similar exacto Murphy work ( although I highly doubt he bestowed his knife apon this particular guitar ) ..the dot/side marker looks good

 

[J.D.]

Wouldn't the neck base end inside the pocket have finish? This neck appears to be unfinished in that area. Photos suggest the neck might have been removed at some point.

Interesting observation. Most of the mounting tabs of the dog ear pickup appear to have been cut off. I've seen soapbar pickups under the dogear cover on these early Juniors but I don't believe I've seen this exactly, and it appears original by the photos posted.

 

[Flying Fish]

I agree with the comments above that the The "Gibson" and the "Les Paul JUNIOR" silkscreen is not original.

The headstock checking was done with an Exacto knife (although that doesn't appear to be Murphy's handwork).

The tuner posts should be raw brass and the tuner grommets should be thin brass sheet metal grommets which have been nickel-plated.

The pickup position indicates it is a 1954-1956 model. In late 1956 the pickup was moved 1/4" farther away from the bridge.

The knobs appear to be from a 1954 or 1955 model.

The heel shape looks identical to that of my 1955 Junior

Brazilian Rosewood can have many appearances, so I can't say that it is or isn't based on the photos. The inlays look correct.

The nut should be made of nylon

South of the nut, everything looks consistent with a 1954-1955 Junior to me, but it has definitely work done on the headstock. Can you post some photos of the backside of the headstock?

Thanks so much everyone for the help

 

[Flying Fish]

Wouldn't the neck base end inside the pocket have finish? This neck appears to be unfinished in that area. Photos suggest the neck might have been removed at some point.

Interesting observation. Most of the mounting tabs of the dog ear pickup appear to have been cut off. I've seen soapbar pickups under the dogear cover on these early Juniors but I don't believe I've seen this exactly, and it appears original by the photos posted.

Yes tabs trimmed and bottom of cover sanded down

 

[garywright]

Funky mustache

 

[AA00475Bassman]

Why is is there no checking at screw holes : answer bad razor job !

 

[garywright]

that serial ink job

 

[garywright]

can you post a pic showing that headstock pitch

 

[Flying Fish]

.

 

[sws1]

View attachment 21155
View attachment 21156

With 57 & 60 ESs for comparison.

Looks like 2 different makers. Look how sharp the edges of the top one are. And the mustache is different. (I also see the micro scratches on the finish.)

Also, it is me, or do the dots on the fretboard look a little "busy"? Mine (and others I've seen) have les movement. (Ala the difference between 50s and 60s inlays)

 

[Flying Fish]

seller is taking the guitar back. Thanks for all the help.

 

[JIMI55LP]

Good move!

 

[marshall1987]

That guitar has a replaced neck. Everything about it shouts "broken neck replaced by my luthier".