Need help identifying this Les Paul

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

Okay, thanks for that bit of information. I didn't know that was done once the flower pots went away, so that could be what happened with this guitar, just no way to know for sure without a bona fide Gibson expert getting a close-up look.

The flower pot hasn't gone away. Still used on higher model Gibson's. As far as options go I would have it refinished back to its original look. You can probably even find an original 70's split diamond headstock overlay. Gibson sold off and had many auctions for extra parts they had back in the 70's and 80's.

 

[zinsmeister]

Ok, good to know, thanks.

 

[zinsmeister]

@zinsmeister FYI: also post in the sub-forum pub 'Vintage 1961-1969 SGs and Les Pauls' to see if you get more replies; also look at Moonweasel's latesixtieslespauls.com

So I went to latesixtieslespauls.com and quickly learned my guitar is of 70's vintage by comparing the logo:



1960's Logo (LEFT) vs. 1970's Logo (RIGHT, non-original tuners)

Mine is for sure the 1970's style

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

I put a link to the headstock overlay you will need if restoring back to correct look. Not sure how many refinishers can create one from scratch. You can ask the refinishers you contact about this. If you buy the overlay yourself make sure to ask for really good dimensions to check with your headstock just in case.

https://reverb.com/ca/item/1539509-...lay-split-diamond-lpc-355-sg-free-ship-in-usa

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

I did some looking and it doesn't look like there are many actual Gibson overlays available like there used to be 10 years ago. Might be easier and cheaper just to have the person doing the refinish to replace the home made flower pot with split diamond inlays. Mother of Pearl split diamond inlays are readily available on the internet and ebay. Is the original 5 ply binding still around the overlay? Can't tell if it is missing or painted over in black.

 

[Joe's Vintage Guitars]

This is definitely an interesting piece! The pancake body and volute match the early '70s timeline for Les Paul Customs, but the flowerpot design on the headstock is definitely not typical. It could be a modification done when the headstock was refinished. The serial number without the "Made in the USA" stamp lines up with the possibility of it being made during the transitional period in the early '70s. Before restoring it, it might be a good idea to have a vintage guitar expert inspect it to confirm the original features and determine if it’s worth tracking down original parts. Sometimes these guitars, even with modifications, can still have solid value.

 

[zinsmeister]

So, a local guitar shop here with a guy who is said to be the LP expert in the area believes this: "So based on this, I would say this is a 1969/1970 LP Custom that has been modified. Authenticating factors are the ABR-1 bridge posts, flat frets, binding on the fret nibs and pancake body, and transitional neck tenon.

The black headstock veneer must have been removed and replaced with what looks like a handmade logo designed to look like the flower pot from those archtops in the 30s."

With that information, what direction would you (any of you) go in to regain as much value as possible? Also, if I order LP replacement parts do they all need to come from Gibson or can they be purchased through places like StewMac?

 

[Highmass]

I´m not really impressed by this "expert". I have owned two 1974 Customs (Serial numbers 399660 & 396123). Both of them were 20th anniversary versions, so definitively 1974. Both had the following features: ABR1, "Fretless wonder frets", fret nibs (As far as I know Customs have ALWAYS had fret nibs) and pancake bodies. I owned these before the internet, so I was not aware of the importance of tenons, and for that reason I can´t wouch for that. But according to Latesixieslespaul, the transitional tenon was used, untill the rocker tenon was introduced in the mid seventies. So in my mind none of these things means that it might not as well be a 1974.
However both of the Customs I mentioned had the Gibson branded Schaller M6 tuners. Your guitar have obviously never had Schaller tuners, and as the Kluson waffeleback tuners your guitar had, was used before the switch to Schallers, that points to your guitar being earlier than 1974.
The case your guitar is in, also strongly points to 1969. In the late sixties the Les Paul case came both in the rectangular style you have, and in the more traditional guitar shaped case, both of wich had the yellow lining. Sometime in 1970 Gibson started using only the guitar shaped case, but with purple lining.
My conclusion is, that the guitar must be late 1969 - early 1970, if the case is original to the guitar.

 

[zinsmeister]

I´m not really impressed by this "expert". I have owned two 1974 Customs (Serial numbers 399660 & 396123). Both of them were 20th anniversary versions, so definitively 1974. Both had the following features: ABR1, "Fretless wonder frets", fret nibs (As far as I know Customs have ALWAYS had fret nibs) and pancake bodies. I owned these before the internet, so I was not aware of the importance of tenons, and for that reason I can´t wouch for that. But according to Latesixieslespaul, the transitional tenon was used, untill the rocker tenon was introduced in the mid seventies. So in my mind none of these things means that it might not as well be a 1974.
However both of the Customs I mentioned had the Gibson branded Schaller M6 tuners. Your guitar have obviously never had Schaller tuners, and as the Kluson waffeleback tuners your guitar had, was used before the switch to Schallers, that points to your guitar being earlier than 1974.
The case your guitar is in, also strongly points to 1969. In the late sixties the Les Paul case came both in the rectangular style you have, and in the more traditional guitar shaped case, both of wich had the yellow lining. Sometime in 1970 Gibson started using only the guitar shaped case, but with purple lining.
My conclusion is, that the guitar must be late 1969 - early 1970, if the case is original to the guitar.

Thank you, that is some great information! If this were yours, would you try to get it back to an original state? I don't intend to sell it but I would love to play it, I just don't want to do anything to decrease whatever value it may have.

Also, the truss rod seems to have been epoxied at some point so that is going to have to be dealt with as well.

 

[Highmass]

In my opinion it would be a waste of money getting original parts for this guitar. Quality reproductions are just as good as the originals, and in the condition the guitar is in, it will never be more that a player. If I owned this guitar, I would sell the case to someone with a mint 68 without case, most likely for a small fortune. I would the use the money to get a modern case, and quality reproduction parts for the guitar. If you´re really lucky, the case may even pay part of the refret as well. The refinish you´ll probaply have to pay yourself.