Need help identifying this Les Paul

[zinsmeister]

Hey all, new here and new to the LP world.

My dad has had this guitar in the bottom of the closet since the mid-70s and has finally agreed to let me take it and see if it is worth restoring.

Here is what I have learned (or think I have learned) from researching it online:

1. It has a pancake body which places it from '69 - '78 or so, but it has been at my house since about 1975.

2. It has a 3-piece mahogany neck with the volute, which again puts it '69 -'78

3. It has the block or bar fret markers and flat frets which would suggest it is a Les Paul Custom

Then, there are these two details that do not quite fit:


1. It has a 6-digit die-cut serial number 918196 on the back of the headstock with no "Made in the USA" stamp, which according to truevintageguitar.com, would make it a 1968, except the volute was not used until 1969. It is possible the "Made in the USA" stamp was removed, which according to the same site would place it in '70-'72. It could also have been made during the transition and did not get the "Made in the USA" stamp but did get the volute.

2. The headstock has a messy-looking flowerpot design instead of the split diamond inlay, and someone seems to have removed the black finish and added a custom faux wood finish.






I have not been able to find any examples of a Les Paul with the flower pot design shown in these pictures:



If anyone has any knowledge of how the flowerpot got on this guitar or if you can tell me exactly what it is, it would greatly help with making the decision to begin tracking down original parts. I don't want to invest a lot of money in a fake or some kind of Frankenstrat.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

 

[Grog]

It looks like a typical 1969/1970 Les Paul Custom with a maple cap. It’s had the original finish stripped off, maybe a different neck after a headstock break? The case looks like the same case I have with my 1969 Deluxe. It might be an employee build that he customized for himself……..

On second look, yours looks more like a Firebird case from the same era. They had several case vendors…..

 

[zinsmeister]

Hey Grog, thanks for the insight! That is a gorgeous LP you have. Do you think mine is worth restoring? I have no interest in selling, but I would like to have a playable LP

 

[zinsmeister]

Also, any suggestions on refinishing versus leaving as is and replacing the missing parts?

 

[zinsmeister]

It looks like a typical 1969/1970 Les Paul Custom with a maple cap. It’s had the original finish stripped off, maybe a different neck after a headstock break? The case looks like the same case I have with my 1969 Deluxe. It might be an employee build that he customized for himself……..

On second look, yours looks more like a Firebird case from the same era. They had several case vendors…..

You are right about the case. This one was listed on Reverb as a 1960's Firebird case:

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Because it was stripped down, could that emblem have been hand done by someone after stripping finish?
Needs everything elee, it would seem.

 

[Grog]

Also, any suggestions on refinishing versus leaving as is and replacing the missing parts?

I would be tempted to have it refinished in the original black finish with nitro lacquer if it was mine. You might be able to find a split diamond headstock inlay. These have been fetching a huge price tag as of lately. I wanted a ‘69 to go with my Deluxe, due to the cost I ended up with a ‘74. I had a ‘64 EB-0F stripped & refinished at Dave’s Guitar Shop in LaCrosse WI. They did a great job!

 

[GreenBurst]

Nice LP. Do you have any info on the backstory of how it came to be in this condition? Your father owned it for 50 yrs he must have some other details.

Suggest leaving the headstock inlay as 1) it's part of the guitar history, 2) it can create more questions at future resale if changed.

A LP Custom should have binding on the headstock. Hard to tell in your pics if the black edge marking is paint covering original binding. Does it have binding?

Best to restore it with the backstory intact. Even if it was renecked.

 

[jb_abides]

@zinsmeister FYI: also post in the sub-forum pub 'Vintage 1961-1969 SGs and Les Pauls' to see if you get more replies; also look at Moonweasel's latesixtieslespauls.com

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

Putting a flower pot emblem onto the headstock was mostly a 70's thing after the Les Paul came back. Gibson's top models had them. Lots of people thought it looked cool and there are probably a fair number of Les Pauls from that period or earlier with it. Not everybody thought it was cool though. Jeff Beck's guitar tech put one onto one of his Les Pauls and he wasn't happy about it.

 

[zinsmeister]

Because it was stripped down, could that emblem have been hand done by someone after stripping finish?
Needs everything elee, it would seem.

Yeah, I wondered that about the emblem as well. It's a little sloppy looking but it also looks a lot like the old ones so hard to say, but it does need everything that's not made of wood.

 

[zinsmeister]

Nice LP. Do you have any info on the backstory of how it came to be in this condition? Your father owned it for 50 yrs he must have some other details.

Suggest leaving the headstock inlay as 1) it's part of the guitar history, 2) it can create more questions at future resale if changed.

A LP Custom should have binding on the headstock. Hard to tell in your pics if the black edge marking is paint covering original binding. Does it have binding?

Best to restore it with the backstory intact. Even if it was renecked.

 

[zinsmeister]

Well, the truth is, my dad was into some shady car dealings with a chop shop back in the '70s. While he's always maintained that he traded a guy for this guitar, we suspect it may have been in the trunk of one of the cars he boosted for the chop shop. He's moving off into dementia these days so we can't really get a straight story from him.

I'm not sure if the head stock has binding, but I will take a closer look.

 

[zinsmeister]

Putting a flower pot emblem onto the headstock was mostly a 70's thing after the Les Paul came back. Gibson's top models had them. Lots of people thought it looked cool and there are probably a fair number of Les Pauls from that period or earlier with it. Not everybody thought it was cool though. Jeff Beck's guitar tech put one onto one of his Les Pauls and he wasn't happy about it.

 

[zinsmeister]

Okay, thanks for that bit of information. I didn't know that was done once the flower pots went away, so that could be what happened with this guitar, just no way to know for sure without a bona fide Gibson expert getting a close-up look.

 

[zinsmeister]

I would be tempted to have it refinished in the original black finish with nitro lacquer if it was mine. You might be able to find a split diamond headstock inlay. These have been fetching a huge price tag as of lately. I wanted a ‘69 to go with my Deluxe, due to the cost I ended up with a ‘74. I had a ‘64 EB-0F stripped & refinished at Dave’s Guitar Shop in LaCrosse WI. They did a great job!

 

[zinsmeister]

Okay, that's a great suggestion. I'm way down in the southeast so I'll look for a local restoration shop, but I don't imagine shipping till the cross would be out of the question.

 

[poor man's burst]

Okay, thanks for that bit of information. I didn't know that was done once the flower pots went away, so that could be what happened with this guitar, just no way to know for sure without a bona fide Gibson expert getting a close-up look.

The job is so sloppy, there is no need for a bona fide Gibson expert to determine this is not original.

 

[zinsmeister]

Okay, that's a great suggestion. I'm way down in the southeast so I'll look for a local restoration shop, but I don't imagine shipping to Lacrosse would be out of the question.

 

[GreenBurst]

A refinishing option in the SE is as follows. I have not used them nor have any affiliation. But they are mentioned positively here on the forum many times.

Starr Guitars, LLC

The nitrocellulose finish specialists! Providing expert instrument finishing services to luthiers, dealers, and everyday players for nearly 20 years.

starrguitarsfinishing.com