Murphy Lab brittle finish (2022 ML R9)

[CS Murphy 'R9]

Who knows, maybe those with the flaking ML guitars put too much liquid cleaner on there.

I am not taking any chances

 

[Blind Lemon Chicken]

So they are all the same except for the different ones. Got it!

 

[58fan]

I'm another that agrees Murphy should offer a non temperature traumatized finish. Finish the guitars as they left the factory in the 50's and let nature take it's course. But this hunger to have a checked finish keeps that from happening.

I worked with both Kim LaFleur (RIP) and Kip Elder on a guitar of mine. I told them I didn't want it to be checked and both said fine but they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't become checked at some point in the process. Well it still hasn't checked and I play it everyday. I don't gig anymore so it doesn't get knocked around and it doesn't see temperature change. I know someday it will check from age because of the loss of moisture in the finish over time. Not every burst/GT got checked because of temperature trauma; some just got more brittle with age and cracked ... but I have yet to see one flaking. Not saying there isn't any.

Another reason Murphy may not do a non-checked finish is for the reason above, the guitar may show up after shipping checked and people might complain ("hey I ordered mine non-checked").

These guitars that are flaking imo are a problem. Also having to worry about how to clean the guitar so it doesn't flake?

I am a firm believer that the brittle finish makes a difference in tone that's why the Murphy's are so popular (along with the appearance). My guitars tone from the VOS to the "brittle" refin is night and day. The guitar opened up dramatically and gained highs. Also the look is more authentic ... even without being checked.

Lastly I'd rather my guitar not check but if it does at least it got there naturally. Mass producing checked finishes through temperature trauma may pose a problem down the road.

 

[LPR6]

Wildwood has some ML Les Pauls, painted by Tom that are not checked. I saw 2 VOS and one gloss and I didn’t check every LP they had listed so there might be more there.

 

[AA00475Bassman]

Daves Guitars has a very nice noncoolized Murphy painted R9 >

Key : uncoolnized = void of - finish checks - cracks - voids - skid marks .

 

[Wizard1183]

I'm another that agrees Murphy should offer a non temperature traumatized finish. Finish the guitars as they left the factory in the 50's and let nature take it's course. But this hunger to have a checked finish keeps that from happening.

I worked with both Kim LaFleur (RIP) and Kip Elder on a guitar of mine. I told them I didn't want it to be checked and both said fine but they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't become checked at some point in the process. Well it still hasn't checked and I play it everyday. I don't gig anymore so it doesn't get knocked around and it doesn't see temperature change. I know someday it will check from age because of the loss of moisture in the finish over time. Not every burst/GT got checked because of temperature trauma; some just got more brittle with age and cracked ... but I have yet to see one flaking. Not saying there isn't any.

Another reason Murphy may not do a non-checked finish is for the reason above, the guitar may show up after shipping checked and people might complain ("hey I ordered mine non-checked").

These guitars that are flaking imo are a problem. Also having to worry about how to clean the guitar so it doesn't flake?

I am a firm believer that the brittle finish makes a difference in tone that's why the Murphy's are so popular (along with the appearance). My guitars tone from the VOS to the "brittle" refin is night and day. The guitar opened up dramatically and gained highs. Also the look is more authentic ... even without being checked.

Lastly I'd rather my guitar not check but if it does at least it got there naturally. Mass producing checked finishes through temperature trauma may pose a problem down the road.

Gibson won’t send out an unchecked guitar because then they LOSE money. You’re PAYING for the aging.

 

[Wizard1183]

I'm another that agrees Murphy should offer a non temperature traumatized finish. Finish the guitars as they left the factory in the 50's and let nature take it's course. But this hunger to have a checked finish keeps that from happening.

I worked with both Kim LaFleur (RIP) and Kip Elder on a guitar of mine. I told them I didn't want it to be checked and both said fine but they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't become checked at some point in the process. Well it still hasn't checked and I play it everyday. I don't gig anymore so it doesn't get knocked around and it doesn't see temperature change. I know someday it will check from age because of the loss of moisture in the finish over time. Not every burst/GT got checked because of temperature trauma; some just got more brittle with age and cracked ... but I have yet to see one flaking. Not saying there isn't any.

Another reason Murphy may not do a non-checked finish is for the reason above, the guitar may show up after shipping checked and people might complain ("hey I ordered mine non-checked").

These guitars that are flaking imo are a problem. Also having to worry about how to clean the guitar so it doesn't flake?

I am a firm believer that the brittle finish makes a difference in tone that's why the Murphy's are so popular (along with the appearance). My guitars tone from the VOS to the "brittle" refin is night and day. The guitar opened up dramatically and gained highs. Also the look is more authentic ... even without being checked.

Lastly I'd rather my guitar not check but if it does at least it got there naturally. Mass producing checked finishes through temperature trauma may pose a problem down the road.

I bet you can’t hear the difference through a recording

 

[CS Murphy 'R9]

Another reason Murphy may not do a non-checked finish is for the reason above, the guitar may show up after shipping checked and people might complain ("hey I ordered mine non-checked").

That is what I was told when I inquired about why Gibson does not offer this Nitro without any checking

 

[Any Name You Wish]

Speaking of Wildwood Guitars, they offer Custom Shop Fender guitars in a "Relic Ready" finish. I have had one ('61 Strat) for over a year, and it is unchecked and shows no signs of becoming checked. I'm sure Gibson could offer the same. With this "Relic Ready" finish I don't dare take it out in the cold and then bring it back inside and open the case immediately. That would be stupid. I don't do this with my gloss R9 or any nitro finished guitar. My thick poly coated Tele, no problem, that's why I own it

The flaking may have nothing to do with the ML nitro composition. Probably has more to do with the prep or the length of drying time. Gibson has a problem and they need to figure it out. This is not rocket science.

 

[58fan]

I bet you can’t hear the difference through a recording

Unfortunately we'll never know because that guitar was never recorded while it had the VOS finish. It was the ugliest R8 plaintop in existence. It had dark vertical pinstripe mineral streaks across the entire top. The only reason I bought it is I got a great deal on a dealers last four 2003 Brazilian board LPs (2 R9s and 2 R8s) back in '03.

That guitar is now a gorgeous goldtop that I can't put down.

 

[MarcB]

Unfortunately we'll never know because that guitar was never recorded while it had the VOS finish. It was the ugliest R8 plaintop in existence. It had dark vertical pinstripe mineral streaks across the entire top. The only reason I bought it is I got a great deal on a dealers last four 2003 Brazilian board LPs (2 R9s and 2 R8s) back in '03.

That guitar is now a gorgeous goldtop that I can't put down.

Photos of the gold top please ..

 

[Blind Lemon Chicken]

Gibson won’t send out an unchecked guitar because then they LOSE money. You’re PAYING for the aging.

I'm thinking Gibson are paying for the ageing as there is a LOT of criticism about this finish and subsequent price. Another option wouldn't hurt sales as bad as negative feelings in these types of discussions. Personally I don't mind the ageing and I traded for Murphy lab heavy aged, I didn't pay for it. If both parties weren't happy with the trade it wouldn't happen.. I think the price loses them sales.

 

[Wizard1183]

That is what I was told when I inquired about why Gibson does not offer this Nitro without any checking

I find it stupid. So what if it’s partially checked when arrived? All they have to do is put a disclaimer that they’re not responsible for checking. 9/10 it’ll check and if let in the home it probably won’t anymore. Then people would know? Not like someone spending $20k on a guitar won’t know? And if they don’t? Fuck em. However, as I said, Gibson charges for the checking so why give it up? Business standpoint you buy it it aged and PAY. DON’T WANT IT? Then get an R9.

 

[Blind Lemon Chicken]

Then get an R9, and freak out when it gets scratched. Can't win.

 

[58fan]

Photos of the gold top please ..

I posted photos and the story of the refin experience over on this thread: Just dropped off my '09 VOS R8 plaintop with Historic Makeovers to have it converted to a gold top

The thread is in the Historic section near the top of the page. I tried to post a link but it wouldn't work for me.

 

[MarcB]

I posted photos and the story of the refin experience over on this thread: Just dropped off my '09 VOS R8 plaintop with Historic Makeovers to have it converted to a gold top

The thread is in the Historic section near the top of the page. I tried to post a link but it wouldn't work for me.

Oh right..

 

[hdm3]

Gibson won’t send out an unchecked guitar because then they LOSE money. You’re PAYING for the aging.

What about the Gloss and VOS Tom Murphy painted guitars from the Wildwood Spec by Tom Murphy run? He does both aged and non aged on the WW run. Does he use a different forumla for the Gloss/VOS ones?

Also, is there a difference in the Tom Murphy painted guitar formula from before/after the murphy lab? I have a Gloss wildwood spec, Tom Murphy Painted 2019 60th anniversary thats pre Murphy Lab and was curious on this

 

[Wizard1183]

What about the Gloss and VOS Tom Murphy painted guitars from the Wildwood Spec by Tom Murphy run? He does both aged and non aged on the WW run. Does he use a different forumla for the Gloss/VOS ones?

Also, is there a difference in the Tom Murphy painted guitar formula from before/after the murphy lab? I have a Gloss wildwood spec, Tom Murphy Painted 2019 60th anniversary thats pre Murphy Lab and was curious on this

Supposedly it is. But not like you can’t stick a new guitar in a freezer overnight and pull it out and it won’t be checked to shit. So idk how different it really is?

 

[jb_abides]

Does he use a different forumla for the Gloss/VOS ones?

YES, this is always the case, per Gibson and Tom, the ML finish formulation is distinct, more brittle, and prone to accelerated aging -- even left untouched.

Also, is there a difference in the Tom Murphy painted guitar formula from before/after the murphy lab?

Yes, Tom painting/spraying is distinct from Murphy Lab as is any guitar that doesn't specifically cite Murphy Lab (and its unique finish formulation), regardless of aging or Tom's involvement -- although his involvement is pretty much exclusive to Murphy Lab since its founding as far as I've seen.

FWIW, apart from straight ahead 'VOS' which might count as a form of 'aging' there are VOS Aged, that are not Murphy Lab. I just picked one up.

 

[AA00475Bassman]

I believe TM formula has less plasticizer .