Marshall Experts needed

[troyad]

I'm looking at a basketweave cab and I could use a little help with a couple things. It's supposed to be a 1970. One speaker has a date code from 1970 and one has one from 1968. The 1970 speaker is a T1217 and the 1968 is a T1281. According to the seller he sees nothing on the other two speakers and nothing on the cones. Any thoughts?

 

[TM1]

Some of the date codes from that period can be on the gasket that's against the baffle board. For along times in the Sixties Celestion ink stamped the date codes on the paper gasket that holds the surround inplace on the speaker basket.

 

[troyad]

Yep, I have seen that. The guy wasn't to hip to pulling out the speakers unfortunately.

 

[BrianM]

Possible '68 cab, which would support the dates codes on the gasket as TM1 suggests.

 

[troyad]

Possible '68 cab, which would support the dates codes on the gasket as TM1 suggests.

That's kind of what I was wondering. Is it a '68 cab with one replaced speaker? I'm not totally sure what a fair price in the current market is? $2k-$2.5k?

 

[Wally]

That's kind of what I was wondering. Is it a '68 cab with one replaced speaker? I'm not totally sure what a fair price in the current market is? $2k-$2.5k?

That is book for all-original and excellent condition. IMho, for this cab you show us cab, that range you post is a 'I have to have this' value. Perhaps a true Marshall expert will chime in.....but for my purposes there would have to be 4 correctly date and model matched speakers in that cab with more tolex on it than this one has.

 

[janalex]

He's gonna have to pull out the speakers. Although the lack of a cone code does not guarantee a recone, it probable that all the speakers have been reconed. The T1217 speaker is not original to cab or original to Marshall cabs in general. It's a 75 Hz G12H speaker. In April of 1968 the date codes moved from the front of the speaker to the metal frame.

 

[F-Hole]

Top right is post 69, other three are pre 69.

 

[troyad]

Top right is post 69, other three are pre 69.

Well I went ahead and bought it so once it arrives I will get some pics up. Thanks for the input fellas!

 

[TM1]

Congrats!!

 

[thunderkyss]

Well I went ahead and bought it so once it arrives I will get some pics up. Thanks for the input fellas!

Damm... I was going to suggest you offer him $500 take it or leave it. Then tell me how to contact the dude.

 

[troyad]

Man, it's hard to hold a flashlight, phone, stand on your head and keep the back from tearing off while you try and find the cone codes. How do these look so far?

 

[Wally]

014 cones....bass cones.

 

[troyad]

Finally plugged in. Best I can tell, the bottom right speaker has a loose spider. Reasonable repair on these or kills any value? Full disclosure, I paid $2k. Am I already in too deep or do I keep it and get the spider repaired?

 

[Wally]

According to the VG book, you paid retail for an excellent condition, all-original cab. fix it and play it. Maybe this book undervalues old Marshall cabs??? I posted a response to your first inquiry wondering if the cab was worth $2000-2200.
Here is a '68 with the original speakers still wire up but out of the cab and a quad of 1970 speakers with 014 cones in the cab. OF course, it is in France......
https://reverb.com/item/417389-1968...g12h30-pre-rola-bass-cone-greenback-celestion

Caveat: I am not an expert on Marshall cabs and their value. I would have thought that cab was worth maybe a little more than the speakers would bring if sold separately....$1000-1200??? The good thing is that time might bring the market to you...and you have what is probably a great sounding cab...after that one speaker is repaired.

 

[F-Hole]

Old 4x12 cabs are all over the place, but there's a big difference between the pinstripe and post-pinstripe eras. I was recently offered £5k for a clean '67 pinstripe cab.....but it's been five years since I've seen a decent one fro sale.

 

[Wally]

So, F-hole, maybe the book is low on these??? AND...perhaps I am too harsh with my assessment?
I do know that vintage Marshall was one area that did not strongly feel the effects of the 2008 'adjustment'.

 

[F-Hole]

So, F-hole, maybe the book is low on these??? AND...perhaps I am too harsh with my assessment?
I do know that vintage Marshall was one area that did not strongly feel the effects of the 2008 'adjustment'.

Very hard to tell, and it's not an area I watch too much. There is, however, a big disparity in pricing for a cab with pinstripe.

OMMV.

 

[troyad]

I'm working on a little price negotiation based on the speaker issue. That being said, aside from the horrible rattling from that speaker, it sounds pretty great lol

 

[Bygone_Tones]

That is a late 1968 cab with one replaced speaker, and a later 9" logo slapped on it. 3 original T1281's. The cab itself is too rough to be worth top collector value, but does have a nice grill on it. Depending on how long it has been there, you might have to keep that oversized logo, because over time the rest of the grill will fade around it, and it will leave a 'ghost image' of the logo.

Yes the loose spider de-values the speaker a LOT in my opinion, down to next to nothing really. Because even after the cost of repair you are left with a repaired speaker, which is always going to be less valuable than a 100% original speaker.

This is the big problem with buying vintage cabs. Nobody selling them ever checks their speakers properly but everyone asks really high end prices for them just "because they are vintage", and they get carried away with the whole rose tinted spectacle thing, with cone codes, date codes, and label types being 100 times more important than if they actually sound good, or even work properly.

Most sellers are assuming every speaker is perfect without even checking. The reality is about 90% of vintage speakers out there are imperfect in my experience (imperfect sonically at stage volume), and a good 50% or so are not even usable at all, needing serious repairs or recones like that one you have already found.

Do yourself a favour, get all four speakers out and check them over properly. Try and keep the wiring harness intact - it is original. Also do not yank the speakers out with brute force - you will tear the cones, slide something underneath like a feeler gauge until they come 100% loose. Check all spider supports and check for coil rub and any other issues. This might help:

http://www.bygonetones.com/home/how-to-test-vintage-guitar-speakers

Only mint vintage speakers are valuable in my opinion, and by that I mean they sound perfect at stage volume. If you have speakers with serious problems they are worth less than a chinese greenback. If you have speakers with minor problems (eg slightly scratchy, or bit of cone cry), most people would still prefer the chinese greenback instead. They've got to be perfect for a big asking price.

Regarding the loose spider support, you cannot repair it just by glueing it back down. To do the job properly the voice coil will need to be re-centered, and also the coil gap fully cleaned out of any debris. Usually a job that involves removing the whole cone, if you want to do it thoroughly. Amateur repairs are another thing to watch out for thesedays, sometimes they can be impossible to reverse and the speaker is toast.