LP 1975 - Kalamazoo or Nashville?

[Bedroom Thrasher]

Where was it made? It's sooooo similar to my LP!

I've always assumed Nashville, but every time I've looked up the serial number it says Kalamazoo.

 

[Bob Womack]

Welll, another little factoid about the period is that the serial numbers were ALL screwed up from 1973-1975, repeating old numbers and overlapping others. There was no embedded code to delineate Nashville vs. Kalamazoo.

Bob

 

[Wilko]

no way to know factory by serial until '77

Oh, and the third bridge down is the factory bridge from that 1975 Deluxe/standard I pictured above. It has those brass inserts to fit it to the ABR-1 style posts straight into the wood instead of the later bushing style.

 

[jimmi]

I am still a little confused. Did Kalamazoo and Nashville have different ways of applying serial numbers or not from 75-77? If so, what were they?

 

[Wilko]

I am still a little confused. Did Kalamazoo and Nashville have different ways of applying serial numbers or not from 75-77? If so, what were they?

I'm not sure, but always assumed the Kalamazoo had an oval around the number.

Here's a Nashville 1976 on a maple neck LPC:

 

[guitplayer]

Safe to assume if it has a "Nashville" bridge and a round wiring channel it
was made in Nashville. Acceptation to every rule, (applies to customs more) but more likely than not.
Seen Customs into early 1976 with mahogany necks and ABR`s.

 

[Bob Womack]

I think, perhaps, the difficulty lies in the area of verifiable data. One must understand about the period that from 1972-1977, that Gibson kept extremely poor records. The best they can do is an estimate that 2218 of the unofficial Les Paul Standards with the small-script trussrod cover were shipped from Kalamazoo in the 1973 to 1975 period, with less than ten (I want to say seven) shipped in 1975. There aren't serial number records tied to the pre-Standard model group, just shipping totals from the Kalamazoo plant. History books don't have data on this group. Gibson themselves can't help. Bacon and Day don't even acknowledge their existence.

The rest of the data we have is compiled from anecdotal evidence, personal experience painstakingly compiled by people who owned these guitars and are fascinated by their oddity and uniqueness. We have seen these guitars in person and over fifty years have picked up details and learned to spot them, and spot the fakes. We've share the info with each other, especially with the coming of the Internet. Any time you see a blank TRC or a large TRC or a Nashville bridge or a maple neck or a pronounced volute or a sticker serial number or a chrome jack plate or nickel hardware it falls outside the norm for those guitars. There are funny oddities that cropped up that aren't disqualifiers, like white nylon saddles or speed knobs. Sometimes Gibson just threw on whatever was around at a particular plant when they ran short.

My roommate and bandmate in college had a '74 Standard very much like mine. I'm on the left.

His had speed knobs, metal saddles, and a tobacco or vintage sunburst; mine had reflectors, nylon, and what a Kalamazoo employee called a "Dark Wineburst" finish. Both had chrome hardware, plastic jack plates, the small-script TRC, three-piece maple body caps, and three-piece mahogany necks. Another guitarist in another band I was in around 2000 had a '74 that was the same color as mine and was identical.

When you see one characteristic out of line, something small like knobs, it could be a fluke. When you see replaced tuners it means nothing because everyone (except me) was changing up to Grovers and Schallers. But when you see groups of characteristics that are tied to the wrong plant or the other or you see fundamental construction materials and characteristic (maple neck, volute types, sticker serials, finish patterns, etc.) they are pretty big tells.
No-one can tell with anything more than accumulated experience of seeing multiple examples and reading the pot codes. I eventually took mine to a vintage guitar shop and had a dating and appraisal done. The expert had the same anecdotal experience and data that I did and read my pot codes. But it was official.

Bob

 

[Wilko]

Yep. What Bob said.

For the heck of it, here are the two that I had.

Here's the 1975 factory Deluxe/standard as it looked when I sold it. Anecdotes? sure. I got it from a classified ad asking 275.00 circa 1990. I showed up and found it with 1 Super distortion in the bridge. series/parallel switch between the knobs as was 70s style. Neck pickup covered. Fretboard radiused more flat with jumbo frets. I offered 250 and the guy had to have his girlfriend make change! I added the second Super D and switch. This was my number 1 until I heard Snowy White with the Roger Waters band in 2001. That led me here.

This second one was actually a Deluxe that was routed in the 70s.
No real story. was a great 1974 guitar that I sold in my divorce a few years ago:

 

[guitplayer]

kala and nash origin all have to do with construction.
Lack of ABR and lack of a square wiring channel. Again construction.
Pointers went away and the 1st fret side dot marker appeared.

 

[Wilko]

...

 

[Wilko]

...

 

[guitplayer]

Nashville is a term for where and when .All my 1975- thru have a round wiring channel.
Its made the same time the input jack hole is made.
Square (kala) is made before the top is put on.
See the round hole. See the maple cap. See the date on the pots?

 

[Wilko]

Good info on that channel. I haven't paid attention to late 70s.

 

[Maplehead872]

One must understand that one major move was being made in between the end of '69 and '77 , Kalamazoo was union and Nashville wasn't and there was a lot of union busting going on at th time. The earliest Les Paul body made in Nashville was the Pro Deluxe in very very late '75' and all Nashville Les Paul bodies up till '81' had that funny horn shape to to it and none were pancake bodies. Breaking the union was one of the reasons Gibson didn't keep very good records only because of all the confusion going on at the 4 plants .
Tune-o- matic (Nashville bridge) Germany
Harness and some pickups (Moog) Williamsville NY.
Maple 3 piece neck Nashville Tn.
Les Paul Deluxe pancake body Kalamazoo
Final assembly Kalamazoo Michigan

Note: In the original post of the 1975 Standard/Deluxe you can tell it is factory humbucker because of the space in between the pickup ring and the neck. If it was a routed out Deluxe the ring would be against the neck.

 

[Big Al]

One must understand that one major move was being made in between the end of '69 and '77 , Kalamazoo was union and Nashville wasn't and there was a lot of union busting going on at th time. The earliest Les Paul body made in Nashville was the Pro Deluxe in very very late '75' and all Nashville Les Paul bodies up till '81' had that funny horn shape to to it and none were pancake bodies. Breaking the union was one of the reasons Gibson didn't keep very good records only because of all the confusion going on at the 4 plants .
Tune-o- matic (Nashville bridge) Germany
Harness and some pickups (Moog) Williamsville NY.
Maple 3 piece neck Nashville Tn.
Les Paul Deluxe pancake body Kalamazoo
Final assembly Kalamazoo Michigan

Note: In the original post of the 1975 Standard/Deluxe you can tell it is factory humbucker because of the space in between the pickup ring and the neck. If it was a routed out Deluxe the ring would be against the neck.

Nope. Wrong mostly, info should be disregarded. The tun-o-matic was made in Germany by Schaller, the rest ignore.

 

[Big Al]

Nashville is a term for where and when .All my 1975- thru have a round wiring channel.
Its made the same time the input jack hole is made.
Square (kala) is made before the top is put on.
See the round hole. See the maple cap. See the date on the pots?
View attachment 22133
View attachment 22132

That is the cavity hole dilled from the bridge pickup cavity. I belive they were still top routed before the top is put on. It is a Nashville identifier.

 

[guitplayer]

Ah, did not know it was from the bridge rout.
I was thinking it was from the input channel. Thanks

 

[aleixlozzano]

When you say "round wiring channel" you mean this?

 

[guitplayer]

Thats right!!

 

[jimmi]

One must understand that one major move was being made in between the end of '69 and '77 , Kalamazoo was union and Nashville wasn't and there was a lot of union busting going on at th time. The earliest Les Paul body made in Nashville was the Pro Deluxe in very very late '75' and all Nashville Les Paul bodies up till '81' had that funny horn shape to to it and none were pancake bodies. Breaking the union was one of the reasons Gibson didn't keep very good records only because of all the confusion going on at the 4 plants .
Tune-o- matic (Nashville bridge) Germany
Harness and some pickups (Moog) Williamsville NY.
Maple 3 piece neck Nashville Tn.
Les Paul Deluxe pancake body Kalamazoo
Final assembly Kalamazoo Michigan

Note: In the original post of the 1975 Standard/Deluxe you can tell it is factory humbucker because of the space in between the pickup ring and the neck. If it was a routed out Deluxe the ring would be against the neck.

Exceptions to everything. Leo’s Special and Guitar traders reissues (half the Leo’s were made in Nashville) made from 81-84 all had ABRs, normal horn bodies, and one piece mahogany necks. Only difference I am aware of between the Nashville and Kalamazoo Leo’s were larger dot markers and control cavity serial numbers on the Kalamazoo models.