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Keeping A Bigsby in Tune?

wizard333

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May 22, 2007
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84
BillD13: Can you tell me more about bracing the bridge studs?

Whats on there is a B7. I was thinking the B3 might work better if its retrofittable since it doesn't have that first bar. Apparently that would leave holes though.

That angle over the bar doesn't help things.

Even with a stoptail, that hard angle does a few things bad. It creates a huge amount of friction over the bridge saddles, which tends to make things go out of tune when you bend; it also puts a huge amount of downward pressure on your bridge and will flatten it over time. I've seen quite a few ABRs ruined by people assuming that clamping down the tailpiece is what is supposed to happen, but its not. On my stoptails I raise the tailpiece til there is just enough downward tension to keep the strings on the saddles and not rattling, and thats it. They stay in tune fine and sound fine, and they dont flatten out my bridges. Even with 9s and 10s the bridge will go flat over time with the tailpiece clamped down hard; with the piano wire I use it would probably happen pretty fast.

Having worked with other trems for 25 years or so, the key with all of them is eliminating friction and slop in the movement. I don't use string trees on my G&Ls for that reason. I do use locking tuners and graphtech nuts. On the G&Ls I can beat the living hell out of them and they stay in tune perfectly, for weeks and even when travelling. Most other strat style 2 point bridges, and to some degree an old 6 screw, can be made to stay in tune very well or well enough if set up right. I've been doing those so long that I can set them up in my sleep.

But, I havent dealt with the Bigsby before, so before I work this thing over when I change the strings, I'm trying to get all the relevant info about tips and tricks. Since the Bigsby doesnt have near the range of a strat style trem, it may do ok without the locking tuners. I'll probably go with a slipstone nut to keep it white instead of the black graphtech.

So far:
Nut slots, saddles, check movement on the ABR (I always do this stuff on any guitar anyway). Really thinking about going with a tonepros with graphtech saddles.

Lube the Bigsby (do you lube the little bearing rollers where the bar rotates in the bridge? I'd assume so).

Brace the bridge studs? Not sure what you mean, can you give more info?

Thanks guys!
 

billd13

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Jul 2, 2006
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Wiz,

Let me see if I can get some good light tomorrow morning to take some pictures in the living room. Right now I've got some pretty dense fog and the sun is pretty far down somewhere out there.

Some guys use two thumb wheels to stiffen the studs, but I felt that would damage the finish. I used a fairly hard rubber washer against the body and then stacked small brass washers (2 or 3) under the thumb wheel to get the right height and then screwed the thumb wheel down reasonably hard against the top of the stack. This didn't affect the tone to my ears anyway, and it seems to actually increase the sustain even more.

I lube the rollers of both shafts about once or twice a year. The nuts on both my R4BB and R7BB were tweaked by my tech, who also used to be Fender's service guy in northern IL for over 20 years and has been Gibson's service guy for about 25 years. The nuts on both of mine are the stock Gibson nuts. The R7 has the stock Grover tuners, which are incorrect in my mind since my 59 Custom had gold Klusons on it, and the R4 has the stock Kluson tuners. I don't see the need for locking tuners.

One thing to remember is when you change strings or retune to a different tuning such as a dropped D, when you you change the tension on that one string you are affecting all of the other by changing the total compressive force on the main spring and you will have to tweak all of the other strings and may have to go around twice to get them all back in tune as opposed to a stop tail where changing the tension on one string has absolutely no effect on the other 5. Hopefully I will be able to get some pictures for you in the morning.

Bill
 

wizard333

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May 22, 2007
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Thanks Bill!

I think I know what you mean now by reinforcing those, but pics would be great! I'd be concerned about the rubber washer though as rubber will react with nitro; I wonder if nylon or something else could be used. Felt would be best but might not be stiff enough?
 

ES345

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Aug 13, 2006
Messages
705
Wizard, i used two thumbwheels, with a felt pad below the one that touches the guitar, i basically did this to reinforce the studs so i would prevent them from possibly leaning forward, anyway it gives me piece of mind and i haven't been able to tell any difference in tone. i just use the pencil in the nut, and stretch the strings, and play it retune, a couple of times and it does well, but with a singer i always check the tune between songs, and sometimes it needs a tweak, but stays in tune pretty well.

039.jpg


I didn't notice my A string needed to be moved a tad until i looked at the picture, i guess i was in a hurry. Anyway the guitar stays pretty well in tune, the thumb wheels were put on after i saw a johnny A on this web cite with studs bent forward.

11-51 gibson flat wires


peace
 
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RickN

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Feb 12, 2002
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7,143

I ran into a similar fix quite by accident a few years ago. I bought a replica that came with some interesting thumb wheels under the ABR. Since replicas tend to get assembled with parts from who-knows-where, I don't know where the thumb wheels came from.

I was having a devil of a time keeping the guitar in tune when I got it home. I took the guitar apart to give it a deep cleaning etc. When I set the thumb wheels down on the work bench, I noticed that one of them was rocking back and forth. Upon closer inspection, I found that both of them were nice and flat on one side and had a slight dome on the other. It was clear they were made that way. I made a slight guess that they were manufactured for use under a flat-bottom ABR on a guitar with a trem of some kind. They were clearly very old parts.

I have no idea if they were Gibson items - other guitars eventually came with ABR-style bridges - or if my guess about their intended use was correct. But I liked the idea of allowing an ABR to rock slightly when used with a Bigsby. Basically, don't force the strings to move back and forth through the saddles.

Anyone else ever seen any of these? I sent them off to a friend who had a Bigsby on his Historic, so they're long gone now.
 

j45

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Jun 14, 2002
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Those are the original vintage domed Gibson thumbwheels that were equipped with the rocking ABR-1 pictured above. They were mainly on SG Standards from 1961-1965 but seen later. Also on quite a few other models with vibrolas but seen more on the SG's. Every vintage "Lyre" SG I've owned had them.
 
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j45

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Jun 14, 2002
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9,081
These are from my original 1964 SG Standard. The dome is easier to tell when you flip it upside down but you should be able to see the top is not flat. These are original Gibson nickel thumbwheels from the early to late 1960's that were supplied with the rocking ABR-1 shown above and standard equipment on vintage SG Standards. I've yet to see anyone reproduce these although I guess anything is possible. It was a three part system, all made to operate together more smoothly using the Lyre Vibrola combined with the rocking ABR-1 on top of the domed thumbwheels. This is one detail Gibson has forgotten or overlooked with their reissue SG Standards and other vibrola guitars in getting the system to work correctly:

thumbwheeldome1.jpg


thumbwheeldome2a.jpg
 

RickN

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Feb 12, 2002
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Yup - those are the ones. Okay, so know I know that they were/are Gibson parts. I wonder if my friend still has them (or ever used them in the first place). Not that I have a use for them myself... :hee

Kerry - have you ever tried those thumb wheels with a flat-bottom ABR? If so, do they help? Or do they pretty much have to be paired up with the chamfered ABR?
 

wizard333

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May 22, 2007
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84
The two thumb wheels makes sense. Also putting spacers between them makes sense, but I'd have to grind the last one carefully since I'm very specific about how I set my action and it would be near impossible to find spacers that would stack up exactly. I guess if I used a felt washer underneath I could compress the washer more or less to get it exact.

Good stuff!

I also like the idea of an ABR that can rock a bit; its unfortunate you cant get them anymore.

Sometimes I use rounds, sometimes flats. With the rounds going over the ABR type saddles they really want to grab hard between the windings if you use the trem, I'd think without the ability to move some it would wear into the strings or the saddles, probably both.
 

billd13

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Jul 2, 2006
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Wiz,

To quote an old song "Ain't No Sunshine in My Life" today, just some rain, sleet, fog etc. I got a couple of halfway decent photos for you this morning. I also see where Dean has probably sent you his step by step with photos. Anyway here are a couple of pics of mine. Hope this helps.

Bill





Right now the R4 has the graph tech saddles and the R7 still has the nylon saddles which have also worked well. I have prepped another bridge with graph tech saddles to install on the R7, just because I think the black saddles look better on these guitars.

Bill
 
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