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Hey it's Mat from Gibson Product Development - AMA

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YesToES

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2023 light aged, has been flaking about 3 weeks after I bought it new from an authorized dealer. The body itself is fine but the neck has been flaking with it remaining indoors in its case when not played in a humidity controlled room.

It occurs randomly, I baby my guitars and when I play a chord or play It flakes off. Hasn’t been abused or gigged.

I was offered a replacement by Gibson but this one was exceptionally light and they can’t guarantee a weight and I’ll most like get one that’s a pound+ in weight.

Sucks they can’t refinish it. Disappointed I spent 9k for a guitar I’ll probably have to send to historic makeovers eventually. My VOS R9 and gloss R8 remain spotless.

These flakes occurred constantly/randomly within September 2023 - with the most recent Being today.
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Wizard1183

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2023 light aged, has been flaking about 3 weeks after I bought it new from an authorized dealer. The body itself is fine but the neck has been flaking with it remaining indoors in its case when not played in a humidity controlled room.

It occurs randomly, I baby my guitars and when I play a chord or play It flakes off. Hasn’t been abused or gigged.

I was offered a replacement by Gibson but this one was exceptionally light and they can’t guarantee a weight and I’ll most like get one that’s a pound+ in weight.

Sucks they can’t refinish it. Disappointed I spent 9k for a guitar I’ll probably have to send to historic makeovers eventually. My VOS R9 and gloss R8 remain spotless.

These flakes occurred constantly/randomly within September 2023 - with the most recent Being today.
View attachment 25904
View attachment 25905
That’s what happens when they force age things and take it overboard. They could sell it with that nitro without the aging process. But claim they can control it. No they can’t.
 

YesToES

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That’s what happens when they force age things and take it overboard. They could sell it with that nitro without the aging process. But claim they can control it. No they can’t.
They fixed the body flaking from the launch to 2022, I had 0 issues there but the necks are still flaking off. I’ve spoken to other 2023 to present Murphy lab owners who bought them new face the same.

It sucks for those like me who hunted nearly a year for the perfect weight. Many others find the perfect weight along with flame pattern/top etc. only for them to have no help or option but for it to get replaced by a random model off their floor With no option to choose the weight or top.

Gibson told me they can only replace my guitar, refinishing a ML guitar by Gibson is not possible and it wouldn’t survive the process and it would be sent to the demo shop.
 
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Wizard1183

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They fixed the body flaking from the launch to 2022, I had 0 issues there but the necks are still flaking off. I’ve spoken to other 2023 to present Murphy lab owners who bought them new face the same.

It sucks for those like me who hunted nearly a year for the perfect weight. Many others find the perfect weight along with flame pattern/top etc. only for them to have no help or option but for it to get replaced by a random model off their floor With no option to choose the weight or top.

Gibson told me they can only replace my guitar, refinishing a ML guitar by Gibson is not possible and it wouldn’t survive the process and it would be sent to the demo shop.
That’s what happens when most of your items are online exclusive. Not like you can go try out 100 MLs. A store might have 1 or 2 unless you got to the garage.

Well if it’s not one thing it’s another. But to say you cant sell the guitar unchecked because you are the only ones who can check it in a controlled environment that you literally have no control over is a crock of shit. The fact is they want to charge the premium for it rather than ppl get it and check it themselves. To me they should have that right. But again, Gibson is in the business of making money. Not giving the masses what they want unless they can charge a premium for it
 

YesToES

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That’s what happens when most of your items are online exclusive. Not like you can go try out 100 MLs. A store might have 1 or 2 unless you got to the garage.

Well if it’s not one thing it’s another. But to say you cant sell the guitar unchecked because you are the only ones who can check it in a controlled environment that you literally have no control over is a crock of shit. The fact is they want to charge the premium for it rather than ppl get it and check it themselves. To me they should have that right. But again, Gibson is in the business of making money. Not giving the masses what they want unless they can charge a premium for it
I’m still amazed even after they “fixed it” the necks are still flaking like nothing. I tired this in store. Along with 4 other exact models. All the other 3 were over 8lbs and bottom heavy. This was one 7lbs 5oz and balanced perfectly on my lap. Sounded better for the type of playing I do. I can say the flaking seems to happen to those that you can feel the brittle checking on the neck. Others had the checking there, but it wasn’t as prominent feeling going up and down the neck. Those don’t flake

I couldn’t even imagine if this was a made to measure and if someone ordered a select weight, select flame top, finish, and other special features only for their only option to be a replacement and refinishing is not an option. That’s 1-2 years of waiting down the drain

They treasure this finish, while I can say I do like it, many other private refinishes and people like Kim at historic makeovers surpass Gibson. Few more flakes and I’m more than likely sending it to historic makeovers
 
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Wizard1183

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I’m still amazed even after they “fixed it” the necks are still flaking like nothing. I tired this in store. Along with 4 other exact models. All the other 3 were over 8lbs and bottom heavy. This was one 7lbs 5oz and balanced perfectly on my lap. Sounded better for the type of playing I do. I can say the flaking seems to happen to those that you can feel the brittle checking on the neck. Others had the checking there, but it wasn’t as prominent feeling going up and down the neck. Those don’t flake

I couldn’t even imagine if this was a made to measure and if someone ordered a select weight, select flame top, finish, and other special features only for their only option to be a replacement and refinishing is not an option. That’s 1-2 years of waiting down the drain

They treasure this finish, while I can say I do like it, many other private refinishes and people like Kim at historic makeovers surpass Gibson. Few more flakes and I’m more than likely sending it to historic makeovers
I’m sure they could redo the neck only for you. My opinion is I firmly believe their freezers are too cold and kept too long in it. Which over checks the guitars to the point they flake off. What would need to happen if in a controlled environment as they lay claim is to find a way to cure the nitro faster (I know it’s always off gassing and curing) but cure it in a way where it’s more cured than after the clear dried shove it in a freezer. They may need to stick the guitars in a heated room around 85-90F for a couple days then freezer method but not overnight. Try half a day tops. It might now check how they’re producing it? But it’ll definitely check quite a bit and not enough to flake off.

You hear that Gibbo?
 

YesToES

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May 22, 2024
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I’m sure they could redo the neck only for you. My opinion is I firmly believe their freezers are too cold and kept too long in it. Which over checks the guitars to the point they flake off. What would need to happen if in a controlled environment as they lay claim is to find a way to cure the nitro faster (I know it’s always off gassing and curing) but cure it in a way where it’s more cured than after the clear dried shove it in a freezer. They may need to stick the guitars in a heated room around 85-90F for a couple days then freezer method but not overnight. Try half a day tops. It might now check how they’re producing it? But it’ll definitely check quite a bit and not enough to flake off.

You hear that Gibbo?
I actually spoke with Mat and he told me refinishing a Murphy lab (done by Gibson) is not possible at all and it wouldn’t survive/they can’t fully assure a factory first finish. My only option is a replacement.

I suppose I’m not slash, therefore I can’t get a refinish or proper support. I’ve seen so many private builders and respected people who know their craft crap on the finish they’re using. You are right, I don’t think they allow enough time for the neck to settle, especially since it’ll be a spot where gets the most use. I’m a long time Gibson snob but what a joke. It’s still the best ES-355 I’ve played from Gibson when compared to my Memphis and early 90s custom shop.

Maybe their super amazing finish resonates and vibrates the guitar so perfectly, that the vibrations flake right off. Truly authentic
 
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Wizard1183

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I actually spoke with Mat and he told me refinishing a Murphy lab (done by Gibson) is not possible at all and it wouldn’t survive/they can’t fully assure a factory first finish. My only option is a replacement.

I suppose I’m not slash, therefore I can’t get a refinish or proper support. I’ve seen so many private builders and respected people who know their craft crap on the finish they’re using. You are right, I don’t think they allow enough time for the neck to settle, especially since it’ll be a spot where gets the most use. I’m a long time Gibson snob but what a joke. It’s still the best ES-355 I’ve played from Gibson when compared to my Memphis and early 90s custom shop.

Maybe their super amazing finish resonates and vibrates the guitar so perfectly, that the vibrations flake right off. Truly authentic
??? no that’s not why it flakes off. It’s over checked. That’s why it flakes off.
 

jonayg

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Jan 18, 2023
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Hi Mat, hi everybody,

just one quick question as I found as I found contradictory info online:

When did historic Les Pauls get the True Historic plastic parts? Would a 2019 Les Paul Custom 57 Reissue have True Historic parts?

Thanks!
 

YesToES

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Hi Mat, hi everybody,

just one quick question as I found as I found contradictory info online:

When did historic Les Pauls get the True Historic plastic parts? Would a 2019 Les Paul Custom 57 Reissue have True Historic parts?

Thanks!
I believe so, my M2M 2022 VOS spec sheet says “true historic parts” including the switch tip. I’m pretty sure all 2019 to current include true historic plastics. Also, after the True historic run ended they said the specs would carry over to the normal historic line.The current historics carry over the true historic plastics, they now have upgraded pots, paper and oil caps, more accurate ABR-1 and unpotted pickups. Something the true historics didn’t have. Also the Gibson logo was more accurately placed for the 2019 “relaunch”.
 

mdubya

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IMHO - aside from many of the light aged Murphy Lab guitars which look OK, most of them look more like guitars which have been vandalized or damaged in a flood. They do not look like authentic vintage guitars in any way at all.

I hesitate to post anything negative, but I think it is fair to give Mat feedback from an active Gibson Customer.

The Murphy Lab work is not even in the same zip code as well known relic services and (dare I say it) good replica builders.

Again - JMHO.

ETA: here is an example of a vintage guitar that has been through absolute hell that is not even as beat up as some of the more ridiculous (and IMHO down right lazy) examples coming out of the Murphy Lab.

JJN's Dorothy.
3LDfSDd.jpg
 
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ppgf

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IMHO - aside from many of the light aged Murphy Lab guitars which look OK, most of them look more like guitars which have been vandalized or damaged in a flood. They do not look like authentic vintage guitars in any way at all.

I hesitate to post anything negative, but I think it is fair to give Mat feedback from an active Gibson Customer.

The Murphy Lab work is not even in the same zip code as well know relic services and (dare I say it) good replica builders.

Again - JMHO.

ETA: here is an example of a vintage guitar that has been through absolute hell that is not even as beat up as some of the more ridiculous (and IMHO down right lazy) examples coming out of the Murphy Lab.

JJN's Dorothy.
3LDfSDd.jpg
couldn’t disagree more, based on the multiple ml builds i’ve had in hand. they compare favorably to any of the countless high end burst replicas i’ve owned/operated.

i have 3 ml ebony block sgs here as well as holdsworth’s “62 ebony block custom for comparison. the last ebony block standard i got is a go to tracking guitar.

 
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YesToES

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May 22, 2024
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les paul is heavy aged. it’s one of the recent braz “59s.

the sg is a light aged.

they got it right. orange peel on the hs sides, checking is tight, finish is sunk into the holly veneer. guitar looks/sounds/feels incredible.

here’s my other cherry ebony block…

No issues with flaking? I agree with the aging/finish. Even with my 2023 neck flaking, it’s still plays and sounds better than my 2022 VOS 355 and late 90s ES-355. Love the feel of the neck and it is very lightweight. I prefer the thinner nitro feel as opposed to the gloss which feels off
 

ppgf

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No issues with flaking? I agree with the aging/finish. Even with my 2023 neck flaking, it’s still plays and sounds better than my 2022 VOS 355 and late 90s ES-355. Love the feel of the neck and it is very lightweight. I prefer the thinner nitro feel as opposed to the gloss which feels off
no flaking. i’m aware that has been an issue but i’ve yet to experience this with any of the mls i’ve had.

the last 4 gtrs that i got from gibson have been uniformly spectacular.
 

CK6

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no flaking. i’m aware that has been an issue but i’ve yet to experience this with any of the mls i’ve had.

the last 4 gtrs that i got from gibson have been uniformly spectacular.

Likewise here - my 2022 light aged 57 Goldtop RI and recently acquired 2024 Heavy Aged ‘59 are amazing instruments.

The new bridge is killer too. No need to start swapping out posts, thumbwheels and bridges anymore.
 
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