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Hey it's Mat from Gibson Product Development - AMA

matkoehler

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That is a huge help in clarifying and demystifying Gibson Memphis. (y)


2014 ES 335 Dot Reissue <-- I am sure that is what they called that model


All praises to Mike Voltz!
Super confusing nomenclature surrounding "Dot" models...the ES-335 Dot was historically a USA-level core model that evolved into different names. There were a few Dot Reissues with varying degrees of historical accuracy. I would only consider those models named with a specific year as Historic Reissue level if that makes sense. And I agree re: Mike! When I interviewed at Gibson he thought I was crazy because I said I was a huge fan...he was like "Why do you know me?" Now we're good friends. Be on the lookout for some Voltz x Gibson one-offs in the next few years. :)
 

matkoehler

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I could be mistaken yet seem to recall: during one era, weren't all bodies being formed in one place (Memphis?) and shipped to another for necks, finishing, part assembly (Nashville Custom)?

Also, what is the factory timeline for producing USA 59 Dot Reissues?
Yes rims and pressed tops/backs were sent to Custom for a time, then just pressed tops/backs.

There is no future timeline for USA '59 Dot Reissues...under our product architecture, anything deemed a reissue lives within the Custom Shop Historic Collection. :)
 

jb_abides

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Yes rims and pressed tops/backs were sent to Custom for a time, then just pressed tops/backs.

There is no future timeline for USA '59 Dot Reissues...under our product architecture, anything deemed a reissue lives within the Custom Shop Historic Collection. :)

Thanks, I meant past: I have a 1999/2000 Dot Reissue, supposing it's Nashville, that Memphis was not up then?

Pretty sure it just has a 'Gibson USA' white label? No location.
 

mdubya

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Super confusing nomenclature surrounding "Dot" models...the ES-335 Dot was historically a USA-level core model that evolved into different names. There were a few Dot Reissues with varying degrees of historical accuracy. I would only consider those models named with a specific year as Historic Reissue level if that makes sense. And I agree re: Mike! When I interviewed at Gibson he thought I was crazy because I said I was a huge fan...he was like "Why do you know me?" Now we're good friends. Be on the lookout for some Voltz x Gibson one-offs in the next few years. :)

I had a 1995 Firebird V that was a standard USA model with Reissue tagged on the end of the name, too. I know the Dot is not a Historic Reissue, nor was the Firebird, necessarily. But they both carry that name. :LOL:
 

jb_abides

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Mat -

Are you permitted to definitively describe why Gibson dropped 'Brockburst' from the finish nomenclature?

At the time, scuttlebutt said this was a result of some obfuscated legal action, so there was a re-designation to 'Bourbon Burst'.

Further, is Bourbon Burst the same 'finish formula' as Brock? Or re-formulated, perhaps a slightly more shift to brown, i.e. a more vibrant reddish Tobacco.... Whereas Factory Burst seems like a shift to dark reds?

Such that historical Brocks seem to fall in between, at least to these eyes, looking at older photos online... which might be misleading as to the actual spray paint values employed.
 

Pat Boyack

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What an awesome thread.....

Hey Matt, does Gibson CS offer 1 piece tops in regards to the R8, R9 and R0 lines? Thanks! I'll hang up and listen.
 

wmachine

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Not a can of worms at all IMO ................................... He saw an opportunity to improve the Nashville Custom Shop ES Reissues just as the Nashville team improved the LP Reissues. I seem to remember this rubbed Custom's GM a bit -- the fact that they were suddenly competing with Memphis CS offerings -- but I can completely understand the rationale for Memphis to proceed due to all of the business units being silo'd and basically in competition with each other...crazy times. Probably also a demand in there to premium-ize the lineup to CS levels.

So I can say that during this period, Memphis's Reissue ES models began getting more historically accurate aesthetics than Custom Shop Nashville, on the whole. Eventually the Memphis Reissue models gained proprietary pickups (the primary difference to others at the time was that they were unpotted) and matched potentiometers (an idea that I don't fully understand but at least they were being tested). In terms of instruments, both CS Memphis and CS Nashville are great and both have their benefits. I feel like the average Nashville CS Reissue ES model during that time felt very solid, very stable and performed great. And the average Memphis CS Reissue models just feel a bit more loose and dynamic and 'soulful.' Neither really nailed the year-specific neck profiles the way we are able to these days, and the top and back carves began to wear down -- which is one of the reasons we re-did everything for the current range of Reissues that debuted formally in 2020.

Now, all that is in regards to Reissue production but it's important to remember that non-Reissue, non-Custom Shop ES models are a different animal...both the ones made in Memphis and the ones made in Nashville today. The DNA for those comes directly from 1990s Gibson USA ES production. The "Dot" was not a Reissue model and falls into this category. Whether Nashville or Memphis, these models are consistently great but don't carry all the aesthetic and under-the-hood specs of Reissues (obviously). Still...hard to get a bad sound out of them. I don't see a lot of difference between the non-Reissue "core" models made in the 2010s in Memphis and the ones being made now in the 2020s in Nashville. The big changes came from bringing the Memphis Custom Shop ES Reissues back to the Nashville Custom Shop.....
Yes, thanks for explaining Gibson Memphis. Obviously, it had not been made clear what really went on there relatively speaking. But I'm looking for even further clarification if you don't mind. You just made numerous references to "Memphis Custom Shop" As I understand it, there was not a Custom Shop in Memphis. If so, I'm guessing your reference is to special processing given to Reissue and other upper end ES models like Lucilles. So how was the flow through the production process different for those models?
More confusion occurred (rightfully) when Memphis had their "Custom Shop Series". You have to admit that's had to be intentionally misleading. Not that they were not good, as I think they were.

But regardless of that, Memphis put out some really great guitars right up to the end. I have a bunch of them, mostly reissues and a Lucille. They are all awesome.

Thanks again, Matt.
 

Jericho-79

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Apr 12, 2016
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Hi Mat.

Would the M2M program director Dustin's last name happen to be Wainscott?

Thanks.

You're the best.🙂

I appreciate all the information that you've given me.
 

CAGinLA

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457
Hi Mat,
Any chance that the Murphy Lab will do some ES-330s in the near future?
 

matkoehler

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Thanks, I meant past: I have a 1999/2000 Dot Reissue, supposing it's Nashville, that Memphis was not up then?

Pretty sure it just has a 'Gibson USA' white label? No location.
I would contact Gibson customer service and they can pull up the records for it, but yes I would guess Nashville.
 

matkoehler

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Y
I had a 1995 Firebird V that was a standard USA model with Reissue tagged on the end of the name, too. I know the Dot is not a Historic Reissue, nor was the Firebird, necessarily. But they both carry that name. :LOL:
Yeah lots of examples of this -- the SG included. Basically just changing product architecture and nomenclature with the advent of the standalone Custom Shop and the Historic Reissue collection.
 

matkoehler

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Mat -

Are you permitted to definitively describe why Gibson dropped 'Brockburst' from the finish nomenclature?

At the time, scuttlebutt said this was a result of some obfuscated legal action, so there was a re-designation to 'Bourbon Burst'.

Further, is Bourbon Burst the same 'finish formula' as Brock? Or re-formulated, perhaps a slightly more shift to brown, i.e. a more vibrant reddish Tobacco.... Whereas Factory Burst seems like a shift to dark reds?

Such that historical Brocks seem to fall in between, at least to these eyes, looking at older photos online... which might be misleading as to the actual spray paint values employed.
Honestly I'm not quite sure what you're driving at here -- there have been hundreds of different burst names over the years, and we've also painted bursts to provided color samples through M2M. That means all bases should be covered currently. There is no intentional migration of burst color specs...but natural migration is a given due to different people spraying, different paint vendors over time, etc.
 

matkoehler

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What an awesome thread.....

Hey Matt, does Gibson CS offer 1 piece tops in regards to the R8, R9 and R0 lines? Thanks! I'll hang up and listen.
Only when available -- I had to wait quite a while for mine and I had to pay up for it (a few hundred more retail).
 

jb_abides

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Honestly I'm not quite sure what you're driving at here -- there have been hundreds of different burst names over the years, and we've also painted bursts to provided color samples through M2M. That means all bases should be covered currently. There is no intentional migration of burst color specs...but natural migration is a given due to different people spraying, different paint vendors over time, etc.

Gibson used to sell Historic Reissue guitars advertised as finished in 'BrockBurst' named after the vintage guitar as featured in Beauty of the Burst [the Custom Shop also used to advertise BOTB-styled guitars before Collector's Choice, and stopped, but that's another matter...], serial 9-0913 owned by a fellow named Mr. Brian Brock.

Around ~2010 BrockBurst finish stopped being offered, with the closest finish available appearing as the hitherto unseen [in terms of naming] newly christened 'Bourbon Bust'

This change was taken by forum communities as a meaningful substitution, with some reasoning behind it that was never divulged by the company. Speculation as to rationale included legal action or request for compensation from Mr. Brock. This change has long lived as 'lore' in the forums, and that's what the inquiry is meant to clarify... to shine light on history.

Then, if the change was an intentional shift away from Brock to Bourbon, was there any specific change in color or formulation along with the shift in nomenclature... or just the name, or just 'natural migration' as you state.

...

The original 9-0913 just for pic's sake

9-0913BrockburstFull.jpg
 
Last edited:

pqs

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May 31, 2019
Messages
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Hey Matt,

TL;DR: Are the BB 61T and 61R the same as the 60’s BB?

I just noticed something and I was wondering if you could clarify. Looking at the Pickup Shop I didn’t see the Burstbucker 61T and 61R. Instead I found the 60’s Burstbucker without a treble and rhythm (T & R) denomination. I also noticed that in the specs for gloss LP Standard 60’s (classic too) and ‘61 SG lists 61T and 61R as their pickups, whereas in the faded LP 60’s and ‘61 SG, we find the 60’s BB listed. Are these, the BB 61 and 60’s BB, the same pickups? Were the 61s renamed and dropped the T & R specification (they tended to have the same output anyway)? Are their output still measuring around 7.7, 7.8? I had a 61 SG in that sub 8 output range that I couldn’t get a bad tone from it.
 

matkoehler

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Then, if the change was an intentional shift away from Brock to Bourbon, was there any specific change in color or formulation along with the shift in nomenclature... or just the name, or just 'natural migration' as you state.
I don't really know but also I don't really know why it's important. Ha. I do appreciate the questions as always, but not going to be much help here.
 

jb_abides

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I don't really know but also I don't really know why it's important. Ha. I do appreciate the questions as always, but not going to be much help here.
I only mentioned in hope of the clarity, because it was such an item of discussion here, back then, and no doubt the old guard would love to put the issue to rest, and as you note, not a 'biggie'.

No worries and thanks again for your continued presence here!
 
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