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Hey it's Mat from Gibson Product Development - AMA

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
392
I
Love those faded reds.

I feel like I made it pretty dang clear I wasn't talking in absolutes, and I acknowledged exactly your point in my post(s). I'm still confident the average does have the pickguard closer to the binding. In fact you pointed that out as a feature on the current CS reissues in your original response....

"...optical illusion but the pick guard of the reissue does indeed stretch to the edge of the binding."

Seems like you're aware of that difference already? Of course we are getting into minutiae, but that's kind of the point of custom shop reissue Gibsons I thought. I've heard you speak many times about the great lengths you/Gibson have gone to to replicate the fine details and get the reissues more and more accurate, I was just curious if Gibson plans to work on this component to get it closer. For what it's worth, I'm looking at a 64ri and 61ri and not a single pickguard above matches the reissues either, the vintage ones all have noticeably more guard after the neck pickup than either of the reissues. Even if they're not reaching the binding on every vintage example, they are all bigger on that side. I'm even willing to speak in absolutes about that ;) One of those things that when you see it, you can't un-see it.

As for the the body width measurements not being "respectfully" the way your engineering team would take them... seems like a pretty condescending and an unnecessary remark, particularly when I literally wrote that i was just trying to be helpful to show some examples since I happen to have several of these guitars from different eras around. The 2020 was under 16", I've now gotten measurements from a couple current gen 61ri's and they were all under 16" (about 1.5-2/16th's short). The photo is a bit deceptive but it's hard taking a picture while holding a measuring tape flush against a curved body. 1/16th of an inch I believe you said was within margin of manufacturing, it's just interesting that all of the more modern reissues I've gotten measurements of have all been under 16" but at least these two vintage guitars are above 16", and then bizarrely the 2012 is much closer at also above 16". As I said, I was never expecting this difference but in person visually I noticed there seemed to be a size discrepancy which made me start measuring and I thought I'd share.

Anyways, all of that to say I was just curious if these were on the radar of Gibson and if there were plans to make any adjustments in the near future, which you kind of answered. If/when the pickguard gets updated let me know and I'll buy one!
I think we're talking about two different things. Your first post seemed to reference the distance of the edge of the pickguard to the binding on the waist of the guitar. The second seems to reference the edge of the top point of the pickguard to the cutaway binding. It's the distance to the waist that looked a little narrower to me. Anyway I'm not saying the pickguards are accurate to every example; just that they were modeled off of our scans. Room for improvement? Always.

Was not being condescending when pointing out our engineering team measures differently, just that your results may not match ours.

If the pickguard dimensions are holding you back from buying one, order a Made 2 Measure without a pickguard! No upcharge for that. And you can pair with a vintage pickguard of your choice. :) Best, Mat
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
392
Here's a question.... They spend all this time aging the guitars, Why don't they age the fretboards? I don't mean the inlays yellowing, I mean the fret board themselves.. I think this would be a very smart business move.. The thing about a vintage burst that we love is the worn-in, oiled fingerboards. It could be a real game changer in my opinion.
Oil/conditioner is easy to apply to any fingerboard if one so desires. By aged and worn-in I thought you meant finger wear, which is usually seen in the form of little gouges or dips.

images.jpeg

Now fingerboard "pitting" is something different altogether, really just the buildup of skin and finger oils on the surface of the rosewood.

kSzefnJIN5NQy5LSpdoE9ACgGL7iUoMySFN0aEQMtc0.jpg

I agree with @sws1 that this does not sound super enticing to me...
 

NYCBURST

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
288
Oil/conditioner is easy to apply to any fingerboard if one so desires. By aged and worn-in I thought you meant finger wear, which is usually seen in the form of little gouges or dips.

View attachment 16523

Now fingerboard "pitting" is something different altogether, really just the buildup of skin and finger oils on the surface of the rosewood.

View attachment 16524

I agree with @sws1 that this does not sound super enticing to me...
Oil/conditioner is easy to apply to any fingerboard if one so desires. By aged and worn-in I thought you meant finger wear, which is usually seen in the form of little gouges or dips.

View attachment 16523

Now fingerboard "pitting" is something different altogether, really just the buildup of skin and finger oils on the surface of the rosewood.

View attachment 16524

Oil/conditioner is easy to apply to any fingerboard if one so desires. By aged and worn-in I thought you meant finger wear, which is usually seen in the form of little gouges or dips.

View attachment 16523

Now fingerboard "pitting" is something different altogether, really just the buildup of skin and finger oils on the surface of the rosewood.

View attachment 16524

I agree with @sws1 that this does not sound super enticing to me...
I'm talking about something completely different.... And Yes, I know how to apply Oil to a fingerboard... Vintage rose wood has a certain patina. Here is a picture of a brand new rosewood fretboard aged perfectly...
 

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jb_abides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
4,009
We try to choose the pickups that best suit particular models or eras. But also we try to refresh what we can, and '57 Classics are over 30 years old at this point. They do well for us aftermarket but we opted to go with newer offerings with (*fighting words*) more character for some of the core models that used '57 Classics in the past. But they are all shades of gray really and '57 Classics could do the job in ALL of our guitars if we so wished. If more artists request them for signature models and we get more dealer/customer/artist feedback about them, you will see them return in force I'm sure.

@matkoehler FYI, @Elliot Easton has done so in his SGs and Tikibird
 

sputnik

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2018
Messages
25
Any plans to make more of those ‘58 reissue ES335s without neck binding from a few years back? That was a cool run and would probably sell very well as a lower priced alternative to the ‘59s.
 
Last edited:

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
392
Any plans to make more of those ‘58 reissue ES335s without neck binding from a few years back? That was a cool run and would probably sell very well as a lower priced alternative to the ‘59s.
I loved those. And the big neck felt better without binding. Happy to report that you can request that spec through Made 2 Measure, but it's not going to come with a price break. Right now we cannot build enough ES models...order book stretches a full year...so not likely to see a '58 on the menu anytime soon. We are working on increasing our capacity and reintroducing a 330 and 345 reissue when possible.
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,558
Best 335 I own.

Make 'em again!


36788862462_bd522ff77b_4k.jpg

36125239504_276d696dc5_4k.jpg

36151371083_651bf13240_4k.jpg
 

Kutt

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
278
So, Mat. While you're at it doing the Hammett signature V thing, perhaps consider reissuing a true '85 three knob Explorer. There probably aren't enough trees on the planet that would fulfill those backorders. You don't even need to do a collaboration with Hetfield. A "regular" Gibson USA run would send players into a frenzy.
 

Pat Boyack

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Oct 19, 2011
Messages
4,468
If I may, I fell in love with those white 83 Flying Vs and Explorers that came out in 2019. Mat, are there plans to produce more of these?
 

sws1

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Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,751
Oil/conditioner is easy to apply to any fingerboard if one so desires. By aged and worn-in I thought you meant finger wear, which is usually seen in the form of little gouges or dips.

View attachment 16523

Now fingerboard "pitting" is something different altogether, really just the buildup of skin and finger oils on the surface of the rosewood.

View attachment 16524

I agree with @sws1 that this does not sound super enticing to me...

I was immediately thinking "oily / greasy" fretboards, when I first saw the suggestion. I now know that's not what meant. That texture'd board is actually pretty cool. I never knew if that texture on old boards was due to how they were cut (kinda like the beams in an old house aren't cut smooth) or it was something else.
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,349
Oil/conditioner is easy to apply to any fingerboard if one so desires. By aged and worn-in I thought you meant finger wear, which is usually seen in the form of little gouges or dips.

View attachment 16523

Now fingerboard "pitting" is something different altogether, really just the buildup of skin and finger oils on the surface of the rosewood.

View attachment 16524

I agree with @sws1 that this does not sound super enticing to me...
I agree that a dinged up and gouged fingerboard is not an attractive feature to entice or to make me want to buy it . Dark fingerboard yes of course.
 

NYCBURST

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
288
I was immediately thinking "oily / greasy" fretboards, when I first saw the suggestion. I now know that's not what meant. That texture'd board is actually pretty cool. I never knew if that texture on old boards was due to how they were cut (kinda like the beams in an old house aren't cut smooth) or it was something else.
I know exactly what you mean by the old beams with the really rough faces..... I don't know, based on what I've seen, I think it has something to do with moisture and certainly time. I've seen guitars with fingerboards like this that weren't even really played that much. It's fascinating to me. My first guitar when I was a kid was a 1959 gibson cf-100 with the same board as a burst and the texture was like this... I really don't know the answer. But I do know the gentleman who aged this board did an amazing job. Also, this may come as a far out suggestion for Gibson, but here's my idea, Everyone including myself tend to like a dark board, now they use Indian rosewood instead of Brazilian as we all know Brazilian is a finite resource and only on limited runs, But I think it would be interesting for them to "try" roasting the rosewood boards to darken them up. Now this could be a complete failure, but I think it's worth a try. Maybe they have, I don't know. Just another idea I have, and they're not all winners. 🤣
 

ChuckNOS

New member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
22
Mat,

I am the VERY happy owner of an early (Jan 2019) 20th Anniversary R9 in factory burst and a WW Spec 59 ES335 TDC "Viking Red" gloss. Each plays and sounds amazing, even in my incapable hands. One of my very good friends from childhood, Jack T, who happens to be a very fine tech, and who has experience working on and playing several real 59 bursts, says that the LP is spot on. The ES also gets his approval of one of the best he's ever played.

I have a question and a comment about one small issue.

Question - Is there something "different" about the R9 Factory Burst finish formulation? I've seen debated on forums that a stabilizer of some sort is added to the FB lacquers which will arrest fading over time. If that is the case, what is the thinking behind stabilizing just that particular finish?

Comment - On my R9, the pick guard bolt protruded below the nut a bit too far and there was a small, almost imperceptible divit in the finish underneath. Obviously this is not visible with the guard installed. Jack adhered some felt to the bolt underneath to prevent further erosion. At the time, I mentioned this to my WW sales person who said they were aware of the issue and are looking into it. Just wondering if that is something you folks in the CS are aware of and what, if anything, was done about it? (FWIW I bought this to play not to look at so of course it will see some battle scars over time, but it did take a bit away from the brand new "perfect" guitar box opening experience.)

P.S. I've read through al posts this thread and if any of these issues were addressed before, I missed them and apologize if I am derelict in that manner of forum etiquette.
 

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El Gringo

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5,349
Matt, I was wondering if you could kindly help me out with a gold tone knob for my 2014 R9 which is cracked on the bridge pickup tone control and it looks like it is ready to fall off . I have tried calling once on the Phone and also sent an E-Mail to know avail . Please help . 5-16-21 2 - Copy.jpg 5-15-21 (8) - Copy.jpg
 

matkoehler

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
392
Mat,

I am the VERY happy owner of an early (Jan 2019) 20th Anniversary R9 in factory burst and a WW Spec 59 ES335 TDC "Viking Red" gloss. Each plays and sounds amazing, even in my incapable hands. One of my very good friends from childhood, Jack T, who happens to be a very fine tech, and who has experience working on and playing several real 59 bursts, says that the LP is spot on. The ES also gets his approval of one of the best he's ever played.

I have a question and a comment about one small issue.

Question - Is there something "different" about the R9 Factory Burst finish formulation? I've seen debated on forums that a stabilizer of some sort is added to the FB lacquers which will arrest fading over time. If that is the case, what is the thinking behind stabilizing just that particular finish?

Comment - On my R9, the pick guard bolt protruded below the nut a bit too far and there was a small, almost imperceptible divit in the finish underneath. Obviously this is not visible with the guard installed. Jack adhered some felt to the bolt underneath to prevent further erosion. At the time, I mentioned this to my WW sales person who said they were aware of the issue and are looking into it. Just wondering if that is something you folks in the CS are aware of and what, if anything, was done about it? (FWIW I bought this to play not to look at so of course it will see some battle scars over time, but it did take a bit away from the brand new "perfect" guitar box opening experience.)

P.S. I've read through al posts this thread and if any of these issues were addressed before, I missed them and apologize if I am derelict in that manner of forum etiquette.
Welcome! Thanks for the note and congrats on your beauties. None of our bursts fade anywhere like the originals, which turned to lemon within a sunny day in a window. Obviously for what we do and the range of different bursts that we offer, we need to ensure consistency as much as possible. But anyway Factory Burst is not a different formulation BUT it is different from the other 60th Anniversary colors in that it uses the Tom Murphy process. I won't go into specifics but it has to do with how the burst is painted, and it results in more contrast and hints of black towards the edges -- the same kind of thin dark halo you see on a pristine factory cherry sunburst finish in the 50s, which is why we named this "Factory Burst." Hope that helps!

Regarding the pickguard screw/nut -- sorry to hear. It's not a common issue that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't be surprised if Custom Shop already addressed it if WW reached out to them.

Thanks again!
 

matkoehler

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Sep 12, 2014
Messages
392
Matt, I was wondering if you could kindly help me out with a gold tone knob for my 2014 R9 which is cracked on the bridge pickup tone control and it looks like it is ready to fall off . I have tried calling once on the Phone and also sent an E-Mail to know avail . Please help .
As mentioned earlier, it is often difficult for me to coordinate with Customer Service to resolve things like this...I rely on them to do this just as they rely on me to introduce new products. But I am curious...what was their response? Warranty doesn't mention knobs but perhaps they qualify this as normal wear and tear? If you bought it new from an authorized dealer, my personal viewpoint is that they should be able to replace them via the warranty. Worst case scenario, these knobs are available to purchase on the website for $20. -Mat
 

djcmusician

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Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
198
Welcome! Thanks for the note and congrats on your beauties. None of our bursts fade anywhere like the originals, which turned to lemon within a sunny day in a window. Obviously for what we do and the range of different bursts that we offer, we need to ensure consistency as much as possible. But anyway Factory Burst is not a different formulation BUT it is different from the other 60th Anniversary colors in that it uses the Tom Murphy process. I won't go into specifics but it has to do with how the burst is painted, and it results in more contrast and hints of black towards the edges -- the same kind of thin dark halo you see on a pristine factory cherry sunburst finish in the 50s, which is why we named this "Factory Burst." Hope that helps!

Thanks again!
Great info
 

Wizard1183

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Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
269
Hi Mat, another question. Will will the news release and production of Kirk Hammet guitars be coming out?
 
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