Heritage 80 serial number database / decoding the 4# digit sequence

[GreenBurst]

Excellent analysis work. Thanks for sharing. I have a Heritage Elite that I've owned for 39 yrs after buying from the original owner.

#0081 built on July 25th, 1980.

Here's a current pic. Also my first Les Paul.

 

[Reflect_ion]

Excellent analysis work. Thanks for sharing. I have a Heritage Elite that I've owned for 39 yrs after buying from the original owner.

#0081 built on July 25th, 1980.

Here's a current pic. Also my first Les Paul.
View attachment 26925

Thanks and thanks for sharing. What a beautiful top and it works so well with the ebony fretboard!

And, yours in an interesting one, you say July 25th 1980, so that would make it 82070xxx. And that is then this black dot below:

That means your Elite has a serial below the 0001 Elite (82180535), as found in the estate sale of Les Paul himself.



Proof that they make the necks with their 8# serials in batches first, and only apply the 4# serial after some other steps (like neck fitting,...) are done?

If you look at my serials you can clearly see the 4# serial is less pushed into the wood than the 8# serial. The imprint of the 4# serial is very similar to the Made in USA stamp. They are however all clearcoated.

 

[GreenBurst]

Thanks and thanks for sharing. What a beautiful top and it works so well with the ebony fretboard!

And, yours in an interesting one, you say July 25th 1980, so that would make it 82070xxx. And that is then this black dot below:View attachment 26927

That means your Elite has a serial below the 0001 Elite (82180535), as found in the estate sale of Les Paul himself.

View attachment 26928

Proof that they make the necks with their 8# serials in batches first, and only apply the 4# serial after some other steps (like neck fitting,...) are done?

If you look at my serials you can clearly see the 4# serial is less pushed into the wood than the 8# serial. The imprint of the 4# serial is very similar to the Made in USA stamp. They are however all clearcoated.
View attachment 26929

Thanks. Some interesting observations regarding build date. Yes, mine is 82070xxx.

Do you have any data on Heritage Series LP pickup bobbin colors? My understanding is that the pickups varied with black, cream, and zebra bobbins being used. Mine appears to be double cream in the bridge and zebra in the neck.

 

[jimmi]

Mine is easy. 031 of 050. Heritage Award I have owned since ‘85

 

[Reflect_ion]

Thanks. Some interesting observations regarding build date. Yes, mine is 82070xxx.

Do you have any data on Heritage Series LP pickup bobbin colors? My understanding is that the pickups varied with black, cream, and zebra bobbins being used. Mine appears to be double cream in the bridge and zebra in the neck.

Thanks!

No I don't have info on bobbin colors... Only a few have I found with uncovered pickups so I can't say anything significant about it. The Heritage series used (as a first) the Tim Shaws... so is there any knowledge of Shaw bobbin colors (apart from the Heritage series)?

 

[Ludo Gallin]

Hi there!

First of all, thank you for the incredible research you've done. It's fascinating to see all the data you've collected and the effort you've put into understanding the logic behind the 4-digit serial numbers.

I have a Heritage 80 Elite that I believe might be of interest to you. Its 4-digit serial number is 0009, which could indicate it's one of the earlier Elites made. The guitar is from 1980, and I’ve had it for about 20 years now. I bought it here in France, and it has been a prized possession ever since.

The serial number on the guitar is 81640623, with the 4-digit number being 0009. Based on the chart you posted, I see there are some serial numbers close to this, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts on whether this could indeed be one of the earliest Elites. Do you think it’s possible that this is the ninth one made in the series?

I’m attaching some photos of the guitar for reference. Let me know if you'd like any additional details for your Excel sheet. I really appreciate the work you're doing and look forward to hearing what you think about this particular case!

Best regards,
Ludo

 

[jimmi]

My first Gibson was a Standard 80. Somewhere I have the serial number. Picture was 41 years ago.

All kinds of 80s going on there

 

[GreenBurst]

Hi there!

First of all, thank you for the incredible research you've done. It's fascinating to see all the data you've collected and the effort you've put into understanding the logic behind the 4-digit serial numbers.

I have a Heritage 80 Elite that I believe might be of interest to you. Its 4-digit serial number is 0009, which could indicate it's one of the earlier Elites made. The guitar is from 1980, and I’ve had it for about 20 years now. I bought it here in France, and it has been a prized possession ever since.

The serial number on the guitar is 81640623, with the 4-digit number being 0009. Based on the chart you posted, I see there are some serial numbers close to this, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts on whether this could indeed be one of the earliest Elites. Do you think it’s possible that this is the ninth one made in the series?

I’m attaching some photos of the guitar for reference. Let me know if you'd like any additional details for your Excel sheet. I really appreciate the work you're doing and look forward to hearing what you think about this particular case!

Best regards,
Ludo

Nice LP. Your serial number date (164) is June 12th, 1980. If you check that against the chart the OP shared in post #22 you can see that your Heritage Elite LP is the earlist documented so far but not the lowest 4 digit #. Analysis has shown that there is no correlation between build date (ie s/n) and the 4 digit #s on Heritage series LPs.

 

[Ludo Gallin]

Nice LP. Your serial number date (164) is June 12th, 1980. If you check that against the chart the OP shared in post #22 you can see that your Heritage Elite LP is the earlist documented so far but not the lowest 4 digit #. Analysis has shown that there is no correlation between build date (ie s/n) and the 4 digit #s on Heritage series LPs.

Thank you for your message. I indeed had confirmation about the build date of June 12, 1980, which aligns with my findings as well. What’s truly fascinating is the discrepancy between the production sequence and the 4-digit number, especially in cases like mine with the low "0009." Given the absence of correlation, do you think some numbers were reserved for specific orders or internal use? Perhaps early examples held back for particular purposes?

I’d love to get your thoughts!

Best,
Ludo

 

[mikeslub]

My Heritage Standard 80, two Heritage 80 Elites, and Heritage Award

Heritage 80 Standard: SN 83450763 1395
Heritage Elite: SN 81541601 0869
Heritage Elite: SN 80152525 1314
Heritage Award: SN 39

 

[Strings Jr.]

My Heritage Standard 80, two Heritage 80 Elites, and Heritage Award

Heritage 80 Standard: SN 83450763 1395
Heritage Elite: SN 81541601 0869
Heritage Elite: SN 80152525 1314
Heritage Award: SN 39

So cool!! Of course I'm partial to the '80 and the '82. I built them

 

[GreenBurst]

Thank you for your message. I indeed had confirmation about the build date of June 12, 1980, which aligns with my findings as well. What’s truly fascinating is the discrepancy between the production sequence and the 4-digit number, especially in cases like mine with the low "0009." Given the absence of correlation, do you think some numbers were reserved for specific orders or internal use? Perhaps early examples held back for particular purposes?

I’d love to get your thoughts!

Best,
Ludo

Per the OP's analysis it is plausible that the 4 digit #s were stamped later in the manufacturing process than were the serial numbers. Assuming guitars are made in batches it makes sense the 4 digit #s would seem random when compared to the serial number date. Guitars would be on the rack in randon order at the time they are at the 4 digit stamping station. This would most likely be just before the finish is applied.

Maybe Strings Jr. can eloborate on his recollection of the assembly process at that time.

 

[Xpensive Wino]

I had one of those for a few minutes in the Eighties.

 

[Reflect_ion]

Hi there!

First of all, thank you for the incredible research you've done. It's fascinating to see all the data you've collected and the effort you've put into understanding the logic behind the 4-digit serial numbers.

I have a Heritage 80 Elite that I believe might be of interest to you. Its 4-digit serial number is 0009, which could indicate it's one of the earlier Elites made. The guitar is from 1980, and I’ve had it for about 20 years now. I bought it here in France, and it has been a prized possession ever since.

The serial number on the guitar is 81640623, with the 4-digit number being 0009. Based on the chart you posted, I see there are some serial numbers close to this, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts on whether this could indeed be one of the earliest Elites. Do you think it’s possible that this is the ninth one made in the series?

I’m attaching some photos of the guitar for reference. Let me know if you'd like any additional details for your Excel sheet. I really appreciate the work you're doing and look forward to hearing what you think about this particular case!

Best regards,
Ludo

Hi Ludo, thanks for your enthousiasm!!

What a beautiful Elite you have there!

Well, your serial number indeed makes it the earliest Elite serial I have seen yet! On the graph it's the black dot in the left bottom corner.


So far I collected info on 38 Elites (really not much actually but still....) and yours has the lowest serial. In terms of 4# serial it's a bit all over the place, but there is clearly a correlation in the "long run". So yes, as stated above I assume they made either the guitars (OR just the necks??) in batches with sequential serial numbers and then they would be on the rack in random order at the time they are at the 4 digit stamping station (quoting @GreenBurst here).
See below for my n=38 Elite dataset, sorted per increasing production date as derived from the serial number.

 

[Reflect_ion]

My Heritage Standard 80, two Heritage 80 Elites, and Heritage Award

Heritage 80 Standard: SN 83450763 1395
Heritage Elite: SN 81541601 0869
Heritage Elite: SN 80152525 1314
Heritage Award: SN 39

View attachment 27646

What a combo!!

Your Standard and Elites are the black dots below (sorry not following the Award series)


Your '82 SN 80152525 1314 is the same date as the one from @Arch D. Bunker posted earlier in this thread (https://www.lespaulforum.com/index....ding-the-4-digit-sequence.223052/post-2952619) and an Elite with a Standard 4# number (one of the 2 blue outliers in the above graph).

 

[DutchRay]

I found some pics of my first Les Paul, long gone now but it was my introduction to the dark side. Hope it adds to your database!

1980 Heritage Standard 80 #0209

 

[Ludo Gallin]

Hi Ludo, thanks for your enthousiasm!!

What a beautiful Elite you have there!

Well, your serial number indeed makes it the earliest Elite serial I have seen yet! On the graph it's the black dot in the left bottom corner.
View attachment 27731

So far I collected info on 38 Elites (really not much actually but still....) and yours has the lowest serial. In terms of 4# serial it's a bit all over the place, but there is clearly a correlation in the "long run". So yes, as stated above I assume they made either the guitars (OR just the necks??) in batches with sequential serial numbers and then they would be on the rack in random order at the time they are at the 4 digit stamping station (quoting @GreenBurst here).
See below for my n=38 Elite dataset, sorted per increasing production date as derived from the serial number.
View attachment 27732

Hi and thank you again for your detailed response.

I appreciate seeing my guitar included in your study as the oldest documented Elite so far. It’s quite interesting how the four-digit numbers don’t seem to follow a strict production sequence, though as you've noted, there may be good reason to believe these numbers were applied later in the process, perhaps during assembly or finishing. And by the way, if you knew how I came to own this guitar, it's quite a special story in itself, but I'll save that for another time...

Reflecting on this further, I’d like to propose a few additional thoughts and goals as we continue to explore these fascinating instruments:

1. Exploring other models with low four-digit numbers: It would be insightful to continue documenting models with similarly low four-digit numbers, which might help us confirm or clarify the theory that these numbers were applied out of sequence. Your approach so far has been exceptional in uncovering these patterns.
2. Considering special orders: There’s always the possibility that some numbers were reserved for special orders, as might have been the case with Les Paul’s guitar. This idea could offer an interesting angle to explore, especially if certain numbers appear outside the typical batch system.
3. Searching for internal records: If not already done, looking into whether any internal Gibson records exist that could shed light on how these numbers were applied or clarify the production timeline might be a valuable step forward.
4. Sharing new discoveries: Every new discovery could add more clarity to our understanding of this series. I’ll be happy to continue sharing any new details or models that might contribute to the discussion.

Thanks again for your work, and I’m looking forward to seeing what new insights come up as we dive deeper into this research.

 

[Strings Jr.]

I found some pics of my first Les Paul, long gone now but it was my introduction to the dark side. Hope it adds to your database!

1980 Heritage Standard 80 #0209

Another duplicate.

 

[Ludo Gallin]

View attachment 27741

Hi Strings Jr.,

It’s great to see your contributions in this thread, especially considering that you worked at Gibson during the production of these iconic Heritage 80 models. That must have been an incredible time to witness the creation of such legendary guitars.

I’ve been following this discussion closely as I also own a Heritage 80 Elite (81640623, #0009). Given the unique history surrounding the Elite models, I’d be curious if you’ve come across any additional insights or records about how specific numbers were handled for special batches or orders. As we've already seen, the numbering seems somewhat non-sequential, but I wonder if there's any further information that could shed more light on how these instruments were organized in the final production stages.

Also, if you have more notes or internal records like the notebook you shared, I’d be thrilled to know if they contain any other relevant data, especially around early production runs.

Thanks again for all your invaluable contributions to the forum.

Thank you again for sharing your expertise with all of us.

Ludo

 

[DutchRay]

View attachment 27741

Hi Strings jr., any idea why your serial number is not the same as on the guitar?