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Hard lacquer

Victory Pete

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
254
I have 2 2018 R0s, one I did some nitro touch ups on in 2 areas each have a very fine check. I have been doing touch ups for years and have never seen a check. It makes me think it is the lacquer I buy from StewMac reacting with Gibson lacquer which is a secret. The R0 with no touch up has no checking.
 

thin sissy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,613
I would ask you reread my post.

If you understand it you will see that I don't deny the finish is different.

The post is about terminology.

YES.

The finish IS different than the 50's!

It IS softer!

It is not PLASTICIZER which causes it, but rather THE FORMULATION OF THE PLASTICIZER (assuming the nitro pre-mix is the same stuff as well).

My 58, 59, 60 Gibbys all had PLASTICIZER as do yours.

I just wish no one ever used the term plasticizer because everyone is equating it incorrectly.

ENGLISH sucks: anything spreadable or shootable is a
plastic substance...

Concrete poured out of a mixer truck is
plastic.

This is not to say it is the plastic most people think about like your toys, storage containers, etc.

As nitro is the finish it would be more correct to say: "the new nitro is softer for longer".

The old spray guns allowed the thinner to evaporate soooo fast you could actually shoot powder if your distance to gun was too large or you pushed too much pressure.

To combat this you added retarders to slow the evaporation, cut the pressure, and or moved the gun closer to complete "the art" of shooting a finish which required much less post-work.

Said thinners caused lung cancer if you were exposed for too long.

During the 80's (at least in Kansas) for a time it was illegal to sell nitrocellulose lacquer with the standard (at the time) thinners to an individual.

The advent of High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP) and later guns did not atomize the mix as much, but a happy balance needed to be found because it also caused the droplets to be larger.

Look at you car.

Back in the 50's that would be a "fail" for a paint job.

You CAN get a great finish with HVLP BUT it requires a hell of a lot more sanding and polishing than you used to be able to shoot straight out of the gun.

On most new Gibsons you can see where the finish has not been worked enough to completely remove the highs between the droplets.

That can be remedied with more work (look at a Collings).

But it requires mad skills as if the finish is to be "thin" like you had in the 50's you have to do it by hand.

Too much and it's back to the spray booth...
Sorry bud, I DID read your post too "hastily" (is that a word?). You're right, thanks for an informative post ;)
 

latestarter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
4,085
Ren, please just add the word “different” to my post. That should resolve all your peeves and my contribution to the collapse of society ;)
 

latestarter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
4,085
And further clarity - I was stripping the SG without any stripper. Just a little heat to get going and then a sharp scraper underneath the finish to peel it up easily and in flexible sheets.

I think to avoid the concept of plasticisers it might be more accurate to say that simply the finish is a different formula.

I just refinished a Strat in Oly White before Xmas. I’m always impressed with how hard the Mirotone gets, so quickly.
 
Last edited:

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,504
Ren, please just add the word “different” to my post. That should resolve all your peeves and my contribution to the collapse of society ;)
Agreed. Sorry.

And I do think the stripping with heat shows the finishes ARE THICKER than they used to be. As is evidenced with examining the "dimples".

I also think they work them considerably less, hence leaving it thick so they don't burn them with the buffer wheels and can get away with less work hence the "dimples".

And the "new" non-gloss VOS is even less work for them so they are slowly working acceptance of poorer skills into our positive vocabulary...

Now, over time the finish may get as hard as they used to.

But as it is thicker, at that point chipping will be interesting.
 

Keefoman

Active member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
559
Man that special is pretty!😍 Do you have any more pics of it?
46831815451_fd9c9e3a74_b.jpg
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,321
Agreed. Sorry.

And I do think the stripping with heat shows the finishes ARE THICKER than they used to be. As is evidenced with examining the "dimples".

I also think they work them considerably less, hence leaving it thick so they don't burn them with the buffer wheels and can get away with less work hence the "dimples".

And the "new" non-gloss VOS is even less work for them so they are slowly working acceptance of poorer skills into our positive vocabulary...

Now, over time the finish may get as hard as they used to.

But as it is thicker, at that point chipping will be interesting.
I think chipping is easier
 

charliechitlins

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
491
It was once explained to me, by a plastics engineer, that plastic molecules "line up". I'm pretty sure this was a dumbed-down description.
His illustration was, the wrapper on an individually wrapped sweet, like a sour ball, tears easily in one direction, but not the other(s).
I've always thought this description explained the checking/cracking on poly(esther and urethane) guitars, and why the checking on modern nitro with "plasticizers" tend to check in long, straight lines going in the same direction.
I've not seen old lacquer do this.
 
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