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Hard lacquer

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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5,186
Yes, right there between the neck binding meeting the guitar body top binding
So the checking /marks are on the binding ? I would be more concerned with marks on the wood , not trying to be disrespectful .
 

Victory Pete

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Dec 2, 2009
Messages
254
Yes, right there between the neck binding meeting the guitar body top binding
This may not be a typical checking crack. The lacquer may be thick there which is prone to cracking. It can be touched up by someone with experience.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
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Can you get it to crack if you want? E.g. freezer.
I live in Northern Minnesota we have weeks of -30 on end , I have set my 07 R8 out side for days no cracks . My custom color fire birds are crack all over from humidity changes never leaving the house .
 

Gino753

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Jan 26, 2018
Messages
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Yeah thats basically my situation, this 2019 R9 is a case queen and sits under my bed in its case, and this happend, out of nowhere

The crack is between the two pieces of binding , as the binding on the neck and the binding on the guitars top sandwich together, and they moved.The laquer sprayed over the binding cracked in the middle
 

Keefoman

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Nov 4, 2009
Messages
549
I would say nitro finish wasn’t meant to crack, but still when applied to wood, it often does. Wood can lightly expand and contract. Especially when exposed to rapid changing temperature. It’s also natural that it starts cracking where wood and other materials meet. Simply because of ”movement” in the wood where other materials like hard plastic and metal don’t.
 

Gino753

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Messages
132
This may not be a typical checking crack. The lacquer may be thick there which is prone to cracking. It can be touched up by someone with experience.
Thank you for that answer...well it actually continues about 6” up the neck from the photo i showed, its a very very thinner than a hair line check crack right under the binding.Again you cant see it though to easily.

as far as this type of paint crack..ive seen a few all be it older les pauls with cracking in the same area..the photo of the les paul with the dark red back and the black circle highlighting where the paint cracked is my 2019 R9
 

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brandtkronholm

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Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but i just ran across this exact topic myself with the experience of my own Historic resisues.
I have a 2018 Gibson Custom Shop R0, a 2016 Gibson Custom shop Historic SG Standard, and a 2019 Gibson Custom shop 60th Anniversary R9. The R0 and the R9 are case queens, no wear or anything.Both the R0 and the 60th Anniversary R9 are also Gloss models, no VOS.I dont know if it is to do with turning on the air conditioner a couple months ago, or what, but the 2019 R9 is the only guitar i have that started to check, just sitting in its case.I found a laquer crack near the cutout area, heading towards the headstock up the neck, where the binding in the neck meets and rests against the binding on the body or top of the guitar.
That's a perfectly normal (expected!) place for the lacquer to crack.
There is nothing structurally wrong with the guitar. (The fretboard won't pop off.)
Rest easy.
 

Gino753

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Jan 26, 2018
Messages
132
That's a perfectly normal (expected!) place for the lacquer to crack.
There is nothing structurally wrong with the guitar. (The fretboard won't pop off.)
Rest easy.
Thank you for that answer and for not telling me “Just play it!!” How does it sound ?? ..lol...i mean as someone who , is pretty educated on historic custom shop Gibsons, and even a little bit on real vintage Gibsons, i have to say that being a Gibson forum, the idea is to ask questions, so i appreciate everyones responses.

and that, this is the second Laquer painted guitar ive owned that has started to Check...the first guitar i had check is my 1997 Fender Jimi Hendrix woodstock stratocaster, checking basically on the front of the headstock and the back of the headstock, going down the back of the neck a little. I understand that though because the guitar is 23 years old roughly.

what scared me about this 2019 R9, is that it is the only one if my Custom shop Gibsons that did this.My 2018 Gibson Custom Shop R0, and 2016 Gibson Custom Shop SG Historic, did not do this at all...and the guitars all live the same life, so when i saw this, my heart sank, as to where the paint has Cracked.Then on top of it all, its a 2019 60th Anniversary R9, witch is supposed to be more of a collectors piece? I wont sell it, but should it be designed to have such sensative laquer, do to people maby buying it to re sell later?

maby a bit of OCD, but i dont know, it just scared me that as mentioned, my other older historics didnt do this.

The shop i bought it from’s owner told me that Gibson did change the laquer in 2019 and his 2019 60th Anniversary R9, did the same thing but?
 

latestarter

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Nov 9, 2009
Messages
4,081
It’s hard to please everyone. Most Gibson lacquer has plasticiser in it so it remains flexible. I will post a photo later of an SG I stripped recently. Came off on rubbery sheets.

I paint my own nitro like victory Pete and it’s glassy, hard and can crack if forced. It chips as opposed to dents if you knock. I prefer my guitars to have a hard glassy nitro finish but not everyone does.

An aside, both my current Standards (99 R9, 02 Standard) have lacquer cracking. The finish is thin and hard but not quite as hard as I aim for.
 

latestarter

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Nov 9, 2009
Messages
4,081
Thank you for that answer and for not telling me “Just play it!!” How does it sound ?? ..lol...i mean as someone who , is pretty educated on historic custom shop Gibsons, and even a little bit on real vintage Gibsons, i have to say that being a Gibson forum, the idea is to ask questions, so i appreciate everyones responses.

and that, this is the second Laquer painted guitar ive owned that has started to Check...the first guitar i had check is my 1997 Fender Jimi Hendrix woodstock stratocaster, checking basically on the front of the headstock and the back of the headstock, going down the back of the neck a little. I understand that though because the guitar is 23 years old roughly.

what scared me about this 2019 R9, is that it is the only one if my Custom shop Gibsons that did this.My 2018 Gibson Custom Shop R0, and 2016 Gibson Custom Shop SG Historic, did not do this at all...and the guitars all live the same life, so when i saw this, my heart sank, as to where the paint has Cracked.Then on top of it all, its a 2019 60th Anniversary R9, witch is supposed to be more of a collectors piece? I wont sell it, but should it be designed to have such sensative laquer, do to people maby buying it to re sell later?

maby a bit of OCD, but i dont know, it just scared me that as mentioned, my other older historics didnt do this.

The shop i bought it from’s owner told me that Gibson did change the laquer in 2019 and his 2019 60th Anniversary R9, did the same thing but?
I meant to answer this…I understand your view point, but many others want their finish to check as soon as possible. I had a 2019 R9 also and it did not have lacquer that was going to crack. I could tell it was softer and probably had the same level of plasticiser I was used to. Maybe yours, and others finished with the same gun had a different mix?
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
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Although many of us do not give two sticks if our new Historic's crack, finish appears to be element sensitive I for one desire this at 64 I don't have time to wait !!

Although Gibson is in this game to profit & profits should be EL Gordo >>>>> No affiliation to EL Gringo . The warranty headache of cracked finish other than aged HISTORIC would be self inflicted suicide Profits would be Menor>>>>>>> No affiliation to EL Gringo .

Now in English STOP ✋ CRYING about your finish & how Gibson should do this how Gibson should do that with the little time we have with these guitars spend more time playing & less time complaining !!!!!
 

Gino753

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132
Although many of us do not give two sticks if our new Historic's crack, finish appears to be element sensitive I for one desire this at 64 I don't have time to wait !!

Although Gibson is in this game to profit & profits should be EL Gordo >>>>> No affiliation to EL Gringo . The warranty headache of cracked finish other than aged HISTORIC would be self inflicted suicide Profits would be Menor>>>>>>> No affiliation to EL Gringo .

Now in English STOP ✋ CRYING about your finish & how Gibson should do this how Gibson should do that with the little time we have with these guitars spend more time playing & less time complaining !!!!!
Lol...theres the answer i was waiting for ..lol...to be honest, as someone who is into these Historics and know the nature of there finish.Its not that im upset or anything like that, it was more of me being a little scared as to the fact that my paint cracked at a seam where two pieces of binding are glued together, so my mind immediately went!!!! Is the fretboard ungluing? Is there structural damage? This is my first laquer checking on one of my Historics, and being the newest one that it happend too, i naturally got scared.My 2018 R0 and 2016 Custom shop SG didnt do this being in the same environment so ?? Again i got nervous.
 

Victory Pete

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Dec 2, 2009
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Lol...theres the answer i was waiting for ..lol...to be honest, as someone who is into these Historics and know the nature of there finish.Its not that im upset or anything like that, it was more of me being a little scared as to the fact that my paint cracked at a seam where two pieces of binding are glued together, so my mind immediately went!!!! Is the fretboard ungluing? Is there structural damage? This is my first laquer checking on one of my Historics, and being the newest one that it happend too, i naturally got scared.My 2018 R0 and 2016 Custom shop SG didnt do this being in the same environment so ?? Again i got nervous.
You don't have to explain that to sensible people.
 

VinceDaly

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Jun 9, 2021
Messages
2
I have the same issue with my two ‘06 models. On the R8 there’s no checking anywhere.

46921201641_867f4b5f18_k.jpg


The Special has lots of checking everywhere.

49735815282_2ca7c63af4_k.jpg
Man that special is pretty!😍 Do you have any more pics of it?
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,415
It’s hard to please everyone. Most Gibson lacquer has plasticiser in it so it will remains flexible for longer than it used to back in the 50's. I will post a photo later of an SG I stripped recently. Came off on rubbery sheets.

I paint my own nitro like victory Pete and it’s glassy, hard and can crack if forced. It chips as opposed to dents if you knock. I prefer my guitars to have a hard glassy nitro finish but not everyone does.

An aside, both my current Standards (99 R9, 02 Standard) have lacquer cracking. The finish is thin and hard but not quite as hard as I aim for.
Pet peeve.

I understand what you are saying, and agree mostly with your point - but incorrect terminology is really dumbing down generations:


You are aware that 52 (or however far back nitro has been used) through now ALL nitro has plasticizer?

Plasticizer is another name for thinner?

Plasticizer for concrete is water?

Plasticizer is the substance which makes a granular product flow so you can shoot it with a gun?

Now...the plasticizer they use now is different.

It may (and does) remain softer for longer, I'll give you that.

Let us just say "the formula for the thinner is different because OSHA requires it so you don't get a snoot full so quick".

And add the statement that "because of said requirements and the forced use of HPLV methods getting a very thin coating of nitro has become VERY difficult".

Too many are quoting incorrect terminology and it is driving me nuts as peeps are equating nitro to poly which ain't the case...

I really doubt Gibson is using new formulas of thinner based on the theory they want it to remain flexible.

They are doing it to stay within industry standards and really have no choice.


ALSO:

ANY nitro, even that done "old school" CAN peel off in sheets with certain kinds of stripper.

I have done it.

That is a byproduct of the reaction with the stripper and not necessarily due to the thinner used, but the combination (technically the chemical reaction) between the stripper and the finish.

Chemical reaction.
 
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thin sissy

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Pet peeve.

You are aware that 52 (or however far back nitro has been used) through now ALL nitro has plasticizer?

Plasticizer is another name for thinner?

Plasticizer for concrete is water?

Plasticizer is the substance which makes a granular product flow so you can shoot it with a gun?

Now...the plasticizer they use now is different.

It may (and does) remain softer for longer, I'll give you that.

Let us just say "the formula for the thinner is different because OSHA requires it so you don't get a snoot full so quick".

Too many are quoting incorrect terminology and it is driving me nuts as peeps are equating nitro to poly which ain't the case...
Ren, I agree with you and you're often the voice of reason (even though I know you would never say so yourself :p ) . I think new nitro guitars are cool, BUT there IS a difference between my 50's Gibson's and my newer ones. It's like comparing solid polished glass to rugged plastic. I don't know why, maybe it is just the age?

I will say though that a 2017 R9 I tried was close. So maybe Gibson did something in the last couple of years?
 

renderit

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Messages
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I would ask you reread my post.

If you understand it you will see that I don't deny the finish is different.

The post is about terminology.

YES.

The finish IS different than the 50's!

It IS softer!

It is not PLASTICIZER which causes it, but rather THE FORMULATION OF THE PLASTICIZER (assuming the nitro pre-mix is the same stuff as well).

My 58, 59, 60 Gibbys all had PLASTICIZER as do yours.

I just wish no one ever used the term plasticizer because everyone is equating it incorrectly.

ENGLISH sucks: anything spreadable or shootable is a
plastic substance...

Concrete poured out of a mixer truck is
plastic.

This is not to say it is the plastic most people think about like your toys, storage containers, etc.

As nitro is the finish it would be more correct to say: "the new nitro is softer for longer".

The old spray guns allowed the thinner to evaporate soooo fast you could actually shoot powder if your distance to gun was too large or you pushed too much pressure.

To combat this you added retarders to slow the evaporation, cut the pressure, and or moved the gun closer to complete "the art" of shooting a finish which required much less post-work.

Said thinners caused lung cancer if you were exposed for too long.

During the 80's (at least in Kansas) for a time it was illegal to sell nitrocellulose lacquer with the standard (at the time) thinners to an individual.

The advent of High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP) and later guns did not atomize the mix as much, but a happy balance needed to be found because it also caused the droplets to be larger.

Look at you car.

Back in the 50's that would be a "fail" for a paint job.

You CAN get a great finish with HVLP BUT it requires a hell of a lot more sanding and polishing than you used to be able to shoot straight out of the gun.

On most new Gibsons you can see where the finish has not been worked enough to completely remove the highs between the droplets.

That can be remedied with more work (look at a Collings).

But it requires mad skills as if the finish is to be "thin" like you had in the 50's you have to do it by hand.

Too much and it's back to the spray booth...
 
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Gino753

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Jan 26, 2018
Messages
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I find this interesting all of my custom color Historic Firebirds have a lacquer that is very crack sensitive . My historic sunburst Firebird has no cracks in the finish nor do any of my Historic Les Pauls have finish cracking . How would you tell if a new guitar has a hard finish ? Does Mark have a inside info on Gibson,s new FINISH Formulation ? Hard to what the touch ?

Would this new alleged HARD lacquer be crack sensitive ?
How many people that spend 6500.00 + want cracks in the finish of their new R9 if Hard lacquer was crack sensitive ?
Would Gibson be opening the flood gates of complaints on perceived warranty issues do to cracked Les Paul Historc finish ?
I will admit I'm a idiot that would want his new Historic to crack my aged historic guitars are pretty much lame with the surface scored with a razor blade .

Ok, i have some input on this matter.I own a 2018 Gibson Custom Shop R0, a 2016 Gibson Custom Shop, Historic SG Standard, and a 2019 Gibson Custom Shop 60Th Anniversary R9.

The 2018 R0 i got in 2019, the 2019 R9 i got in 2020 , and the SG i got in 2020 as well.All these guitars live together in the same room.Last summer i found that my 2019 R9 laquer started cracking around the cutout area, where the fretboard binding ,meets the binding in the too of the body, where the neck sits into, and there is a very very fine hairline line going from there up the neck about 8” between the neck binding and the neck itself.

My 2018 R0 has been in that room longer, and there is not a single “Check” my 2016 SG is the newest, but its the oldest of my gibsons, and again not a single check.My 2016 Gibson USA Les paul Standard, i have had the longest of all my gibsons, i got it in 2018, and it seems to have the laquer cracking in the same area as my R9, but not as much….here is the T9
 

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