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Hard lacquer

AA00475Bassman

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Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,371
I find this interesting all of my custom color Historic Firebirds have a lacquer that is very crack sensitive . My historic sunburst Firebird has no cracks in the finish nor do any of my Historic Les Pauls have finish cracking . How would you tell if a new guitar has a hard finish ? Does Mark have a inside info on Gibson,s new FINISH Formulation ? Hard to what the touch ?

Would this new alleged HARD lacquer be crack sensitive ?
How many people that spend 6500.00 + want cracks in the finish of their new R9 if Hard lacquer was crack sensitive ?
Would Gibson be opening the flood gates of complaints on perceived warranty issues do to cracked Les Paul Historc finish ?
I will admit I'm a idiot that would want his new Historic to crack my aged historic guitars are pretty much lame with the surface scored with a razor blade .
 
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Drayve85

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Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
117
I would rather just have the same formulation of lacquer that the “real” ‘bursts had, and let the checking and cracking happen at a “vintage” rate! Cuz if they’re more prone to checking then in 10, 20, 30, 40+ years from now, all of our histories aren’t gonna look like vintage guitars. They will be WAY more checked and cracked than the real deals. What I’m trying to say is that Gibson is gonna overdue it!:##
 

Arnold M.

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
236
on my TH I feel the lacquer is much too soft, pretty much anything will dent or mark the finish, I wish the finish were harder
 

Arnold M.

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Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
236
This is from Mark's Guitars on the beautiful Guitar of the Week.
" NOTE: It appears that Gibson is now using harder lacquer with less plasticizers which is great news!"
I just viewed this guitar on Mark's website .. yep, she's got a pretty significant crack around one of knobs already and the guitar is brand new ... if a new lacquer formulation is being used it's strange that Gibson said absolutely nothing about it ...
 

Patek

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
406
Why would anyone complain about beautiful nitro checking? Gibson still offer gloss so get a horrible poly shiny fake plastic looking gloss finish

Hopefully the finish is as hard as it was in the 50s so it checks just like the originals at pace !!

hopefully they fade as well.
 

Victory Pete

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
252
Why would anyone complain about beautiful nitro checking? Gibson still offer gloss so get a horrible poly shiny fake plastic looking gloss finish

Hopefully the finish is as hard as it was in the 50s so it checks just like the originals at pace !!

hopefully they fade as well.

Because we don't like defects, blemishes and dents.
 

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
551
Not a defect or blemish. Checking etc is just a natural fact with old nitro. The only way to separate “old school” nitro from checking is to alter the formula. Those alterations carry different undesirable consequences.

It’s better to learn to love the checking. Or get into the modern “ poly dipped thick” Epiphone finishes. Those won’t check.
 

Victory Pete

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Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
252
Not a defect or blemish. Checking etc is just a natural fact with old nitro. The only way to separate “old school” nitro from checking is to alter the formula. Those alterations carry different undesirable consequences.

It’s better to learn to love the checking. Or get into the modern “ poly dipped thick” Epiphone finishes. Those won’t check.

I have 18 guitars, all Nitro, not one has checking. That is a Natural Fact.
 

zacknorton

Active member
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Aug 26, 2011
Messages
551
:rofl

I've got a '58 epiphone zephyr and an es125 and a handful of other guitars from that era... None of them have CRAZY over the top checking.... but they all have some weather related lines, crazing etc. They certainly haven't been babied by me.

My 92 J100 has the most pronounced checking of any of my guitars, and it's not nearly as pleasant looking as the "aging" on the older guitars. It's not always true. But as far as nitro goes...the old way is the better way.
 

Victory Pete

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
252
One factor may be the wood used in the good ole days. It was probably not kiln dried but air dried over a long period time. This makes the wood very stable. All the emphasis on humidification these days is because of the kiln dried wood used now. I know many original owners of vintage guitars who have never used a humidifier. They probably didnt even exist back then like they do now.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,486
One factor may be the wood used in the good ole days. It was probably not kiln dried but air dried over a long period time. This makes the wood very stable. All the emphasis on humidification these days is because of the kiln dried wood used now. I know many original owners of vintage guitars who have never used a humidifier. They probably didnt even exist back then like they do now.


They operated a real kiln at Gibson along with a rough mill some time from the 30's/40's up until 1960 when it was closed with factory expansion and that's when they began ordering pre-dried stock. Gibson may have "seasoned" stuff for carved top guitars though as they're more susceptible to cracks/movement with all the pressure on the 2 arched piece tops. Not many companies season wood, Heritage guitars is one of the few I can think of who used to before they moved to a new facility, Benedetto too IIRC, otherwise it's something reserved for small builders.
 

MeHereNow

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Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
677
My 2018 R8 has a harder nitro coat than my 2009 R8.
Finish cracks already appear from the bridge posts towards the bridge pickup ring and from under the pickuprings where the screws go in on the 2018.
It also has 2 paintchips on the side, when that happened the chipped of finish looked like splintered glass.
Also, a friend of mine played it and when he put the cable behind the strap before plugging in he let the cable go and the tip of the jackplug hit the top, leaving what looks like a mini bullethole-trough-glass.
On the the 2009 R8 when that sort of things happen it just dents the finish instead of splintering or cracking.
 
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