Grovers New vs. 'Old'

[joeymac]

Hey crew. I'm thinking of putting grovers on my G0. I keep reading that the 'old' ones are better than the ones they're making now but, I'm wondering what makes the new ones crappy? I was thinking of possibly ordering an aged set from RS but I want to know anyone's experiences with them before I get them. $80 is $80 right?

 

[marT]

dont know about the old ones but I put a new set from stewmac on my LP a while back and they kick ass. Added sustain and tone from the weight and I much prefer the look and feel.

I honestly don't know what benefit vintage ones would offer over new ones?

 

[grimlyflick]

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but whilst answering the above question can someone please explain what OEM Grovers are and whats the difference in gear ration too.

Cheers. :salude

 

[Greco]

I got old USA Grovers for cosmetic reasons. These are what most of the people who Grovered their bursts in the late 60's / 70's would have had (Page, Clapton, etc) and I'm going for the old vintage road warrior look. I have modern Grovers on my SG and I would say that modern ones are probably 'better' in terms of stability and action - but not by much.

Obviously there are construction differences, even between old Grovers and older Grovers. Not sure about weight differences. There are some serious experts around here though.

You're also likely to get a few 'Everything older is better' replies or 'Everything made in the US is better'.

I've had no problems buying from RS over the years - (Did you mean the company or the actual tuners?) :hmm

Also is price an issue? ...because the old ones can get expensive.

 

[Plexihead]

With Grovers, does there have to be a new screw hole drilled in the headstock or does the bottom screw hole from the Gibson/Deluxe tuners line up perfectly. Don't like the idea of reeming but am thinking of trying out the 18:1 ratio rotomatics (there were Grovers on a '71 Deluxe I had yrs ago, so I'm somewhat used to them but can't remember if I had to drill another screw hole).

 

[Gibsonian]

With Grovers, does there have to be a new screw hole drilled in the headstock or does the bottom screw hole from the Gibson/Deluxe tuners line up perfectly. Don't like the idea of reeming but am thinking of trying out the 18:1 ratio rotomatics (there were Grovers on a '71 Deluxe I had yrs ago, so I'm somewhat used to them but can't remember if I had to drill another screw hole).

The bottom screw hole left from a Kluson with a push-in bushing or a Schaller "Kluson" style with a screw-in bushing will line up with the screw hole on the Grover unit. However, the locking Rotomatics have different dims and you will need to drill new screw holes in the headstock.

I bought the locking type with the intention of replacing the stock non-locking Grovers on one of my Gibbys. They look identical and I even contacted the customer service about dims and the rep confirmed they use the same casing. The set arrived and I took all the six stock Rotomatics off the guitar, and started placing the locking ones... The locations of the screw holes on the headstock and the tuner don't match! I put the originals back on the guitar and threw the new set to the back of the closet. That was 3, 4 years ago and it's still somewhere in there.

 

[Cream Fan]

Old Grovers (USA Made) used a higher quality metal. You can actually hear a "ting" when tapping them with a screwdriver. New ones "clack." I've had new ones and old ones on the same guitar (avatar) and the difference in tone was dramatic. The old ones sounded more lively.

 

[Gibsonian]

On the other hand tuning a guitar on the new ones with a higher gear ratio is a breeze. It’s difficult to overshoot the pitch you’re trying to get up to. It’s a huge plus for who doesn’t have good ears to benefit from an old set producing a superior tone.

 

[Manolian]

dont know about the old ones but I put a new set from stewmac on my LP a while back and they kick ass. Added sustain and tone from the weight and I much prefer the look and feel.

I honestly don't know what benefit vintage ones would offer over new ones?

+1
I had old chrome ones on my LP ,then changed to new nickel ones , absolutely no change in sound or tone.

 

[J.D.]

The old ones are 12:1 ratio I believe and the new ones come in both 14:1 and 18:1 (http://www.grotro.com/Homer2.html). I like the look of the old USA made ones, simply for asthetic reasons. The current production is oversees, but also seem to function fine.

 

[jabguit]

The old ones are some of the smoothest tuners I've ever experienced. You can recognize them from the fact that the logo is cast in relief, rather than into the housing. The current ones aren't bad, but the buttons weight a ton. I prefer to replace the buttons with ebony or plastic and lose about a couple ounces of weight.


Cheers,

 

[Gibsonian]

The old ones are 12:1 ratio I believe and the new ones come in both 14:1 and 18:1 (http://www.grotro.com/Homer2.html). I like the look of the old USA made ones, simply for asthetic reasons. The current production is oversees, but also seem to function fine.

Would it be possible to transplant the internal mechanism of the 18:1 tuner to a USA version?

 

[J.D.]

Would it be possible to transplant the internal mechanism of the 18:1 tuner to a USA version?

Nope, they are different :jim

 

[AceRich]

I fancy getting some locking tuners for the Les. I put them on my Strat and I'll never go back to standard tuners on the Strat. I saw a 2008 Les Paul the other day which had Locking tuners as standard. Unfortunately, the new LP has been hacked out and weighs about half the weight of my 2006 ( which is half the weight of a 70's LP I bet! ) They reckon the locking tuners are about £85 a set and only seem to come in chrome. Very tempted though.

 

[dege]

About a week ago I put the locking grovers on my Elegant and wished I'd done it sooner! The 18:1 ratio is exactly what I needed. No play in the tuners what so ever. Now as far as the old ones go, that's another story.

I had some trouble with this guitar as far as tuning and staying in tune. I thought all along that it can't be the grovers but sure enough when I was changing out the old ones I noticed on a couple that the posts would wiggle a little bit and the buttons had some play in them before they would hook up to the gears.

Not good.

I saw someone post in here about the newer non-locking grovers not being consistent and they had to go through two batches before they got a set that didn't have play in the gears!!

Another thing, the new ones dropped right in and I took my time with the screws and lined them up by hand and went very slowly and they went in straight and true, no problem, no drilling, no kidding!

 

[96 lppp]

The Grovers on my 97 Elegant have a little slop but this LP stays in tune the best of any LP I've had. Anyone know when the company went to hell, I mean china?

 

[modoc_333]

The old ones are some of the smoothest tuners I've ever experienced. You can recognize them from the fact that the logo is cast in relief, rather than into the housing. The current ones aren't bad, but the buttons weight a ton. I prefer to replace the buttons with ebony or plastic and lose about a couple ounces of weight.


Cheers,

now i'm confused. i have a 2008 SJ with factory Grovers. the logo is raised (relief). this seems to be the opposite of what you are saying. my 71 custom had grovers when i got it a couple of years ago. they appear to be quite old. the wear on them matches the rest of the hardware, and the finish around them looks like it has been exposed as long as the rest of the finish. here is a pic of the grovers on the 71:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/modoc_333/IMGP0114.jpg

how old are these grovers?


for comparison, here are the known to be new grovers:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/modoc_333/IMGP0125.jpg


so what do i have on both guitars?

 

[J.D.]

modoc, those both appear to be the newer style Grovers made oversees.

 

[modoc_333]

just 2 different types? b/c they appear to be different from each other in every way.

 

[modoc_333]

also, if i remove one, is there an obvious way to tell? (such as being stamped)