j45
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- Jun 14, 2002
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I was just admiring our own Bill Morgan's "NGD" 1953 ES-350 thread and wishing that any of the ES-350T's I owned in the past would have had the full spaced pickups like Bill's instead of the cramped, narrow spaced p/u's located at atypical harmonics on the scale which cause (to me) sometimes unfavorable voices when compared to standard spaced Gibsons. Notice the proper wide spacing of Bill's 1953 ES-350's P-90's compared to the ES-350T and Byrdland models that followed just a few years later. This is my biggest complaint with all of the Gibson's that have the pickups placed on a different harmonic point on the scale. Does anyone know what harmonics a neck and bridge p/u are placed at on standard Gibson models and then what harmonics on the scale are the narrow spaced p/u's? To me a good Gibson neck pickup tone should have that flutey, blowing-into-a-Coke-bottle voice and that's what's missing on the narrow spaced models to me. The narrows can be a good sound but they just don't have that same voice. Justr like on a Strat, all three p/u's are basically the same, it's just that slight space between the neck p/u and middle p/u on the Strat that places it over harmonics that give that middle position that "quacking" voice compared to the Fender version of the flutey neck pickup voice. If you reposition the pickup even a 1/4" forward or backwards, you can sometimes land on a harmonic that will give a pretty harsh or nasty tone. I find this has been the case with quite a few vintage narrow spaced Gibson's I've owned (1960 Les Paul Special, Late 50's ES-350T, mid 60's SG Specials, etc). Don't get me wrong, some can sound pretty good but none can have that classic flutey Gibson neck position voice unless it's placed under the proper hatmonic in the scale.
What bums me out even more with the "narrow spacers" is that you really lose that sweet funky and sparkly middle position because the interaction betweeen the neck position harmonics and the bridge pickup's harmonics are not the same as a standard Gibson's spacing. Again, it can sound good just like if you blend the neck and middle pickup on a three p/u guitar but the sound of a"narrow spacer" is a little closer to that voice than the big, sparkly, and funky tone of a neck and bridge position blended on a three p/u guitar. To be honest, the majority of close spaced Gibson's I've owned just did not have an exceptionally musical voice in the neck and middle position when compared to a standard space guitar. A few of them were actually slightly ugly, constipated, and phasey sounding (not in a good way) compared to my standard spaced Gibsons which leads to my upcoming question..
In some cases it's obvious that Gibson just slid the neck pickup down out of necessity because of a poor initial neck joint/pocket design like the '59 LP Special where almost 100% of them have a weak neck joint to the point they eventually separate if not just crack off. I guarantee you that 9 out of 10 '59 Specials have some kind of issue there. So Gibson just moved the pickup away from the neck joint but did they even try to locate a musical harmonic? On some it almost seems they didn't even try.
So my question to the more technical minded guitar geeks here, do all of the "narrow spacers" (LP Special, Byrdland, 350T, SG Special, etc.) have the neck p/u mounted at the same harmonic on the scale, or... are some models different and does it appear that on some no consideration was taken for locating a musical harmonic but rather they just scooted the neck p/u down far enough to make a stable neck joint without any regard for the harmonic voice and the effect it would have in relationship with the bridge p/u when switched to the neck position? Anyway, it's pretty obvious the Gibson's with either a weak neck joint and repositioned p/u or the scale requires a different position have a slightly different voice in the neck amd position when compared the classic Gibson Neck and middle voices. Does anyone know if Gibson uses a standard "secondary" or alternate harmonic positon for the "short spacers" or are they just random depending on the model and also what was most convenient when having to compensate for the weak neck joint designs?
Bill Morgan's 1953 ES-350 will full width spaced pickups:
1957 Byrdland with narrow spaced pickups
What bums me out even more with the "narrow spacers" is that you really lose that sweet funky and sparkly middle position because the interaction betweeen the neck position harmonics and the bridge pickup's harmonics are not the same as a standard Gibson's spacing. Again, it can sound good just like if you blend the neck and middle pickup on a three p/u guitar but the sound of a"narrow spacer" is a little closer to that voice than the big, sparkly, and funky tone of a neck and bridge position blended on a three p/u guitar. To be honest, the majority of close spaced Gibson's I've owned just did not have an exceptionally musical voice in the neck and middle position when compared to a standard space guitar. A few of them were actually slightly ugly, constipated, and phasey sounding (not in a good way) compared to my standard spaced Gibsons which leads to my upcoming question..
In some cases it's obvious that Gibson just slid the neck pickup down out of necessity because of a poor initial neck joint/pocket design like the '59 LP Special where almost 100% of them have a weak neck joint to the point they eventually separate if not just crack off. I guarantee you that 9 out of 10 '59 Specials have some kind of issue there. So Gibson just moved the pickup away from the neck joint but did they even try to locate a musical harmonic? On some it almost seems they didn't even try.
So my question to the more technical minded guitar geeks here, do all of the "narrow spacers" (LP Special, Byrdland, 350T, SG Special, etc.) have the neck p/u mounted at the same harmonic on the scale, or... are some models different and does it appear that on some no consideration was taken for locating a musical harmonic but rather they just scooted the neck p/u down far enough to make a stable neck joint without any regard for the harmonic voice and the effect it would have in relationship with the bridge p/u when switched to the neck position? Anyway, it's pretty obvious the Gibson's with either a weak neck joint and repositioned p/u or the scale requires a different position have a slightly different voice in the neck amd position when compared the classic Gibson Neck and middle voices. Does anyone know if Gibson uses a standard "secondary" or alternate harmonic positon for the "short spacers" or are they just random depending on the model and also what was most convenient when having to compensate for the weak neck joint designs?
Bill Morgan's 1953 ES-350 will full width spaced pickups:
1957 Byrdland with narrow spaced pickups
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