For beginners: Pickup heights= game changer

[WTF Cat]

This is just a post from an old guy... it might save you some money.

I've been playing for over 45+ years, and used all manner of different pups (DiMarzios, Lollars, all the Gibby variations, etc).

The advice: instead of buying new pups, try raising/lowering the pups. I did this recently on an R8 (57 Classics btw) that was a little too bright for my tastes... raised the pups... voila!. Got a little more gain, and tamed the balance to something I now enjoy.

TLDR: try moving the current pups up/down before you burn money on new pups.

 

[renderit]

I agree.

Also raising and lowering the pole pieces makes quite a difference on most pickups.

After adjusting the height of each pole for balance then moving the body closer or further.

Raising all the poles, moving the body height down then rebalancing will clarify most 'muddy' pickups.

 

[WTF Cat]

I agree.

Also raising and lowering the pole pieces makes quite a difference on most pickups.

After adjusting the height of each pole for balance then moving the body closer or further.

Raising all the poles, moving the body height down then rebalancing will clarify most 'muddy' pickups.

We old timers know this stuff, but I see so many others give up on pickups that are probably just fine... and then spend $150-500 when they didn't need to.

Posted this only because it just happened to me on an R8 that I'd had for several years, and was never quite satisfied. I have 57 Classics in a few other guitars and they sound great... so a few tweaks and voila!

 

[Offshore Angler]

Height? that's subjective and you need to try what works for you. Nobody has the correct answer. But I will say this, People who say a truss rod tweak makes a big difference, meh, I've never seen them that sensitive. If you r truss rod was that far out you have bigger issues. Typically a truss rod adjustment on a well set up instrument is maybe 10 or 12 thousandths. You can't hear that.

The problem is that there is so much snake oil directed at beginners and intermediates.

Pickups: First, remember that they are way less important than the amp you use. When people ask me about pickups I'm usually going to barrage them with a bunch of questions such as
What don't you like about your current pups?
What amp are you playing?
What type of music?
What setting are you playing in? Home, Studio, small club live or larger venues with reinforcement.
How loud are you playing?
What is you signal chain? Do you want a squeezy compressed violin tone or a punchy clean?
Are you relying on the amp for OD or are you using pedals?

And from those questions you can narrow it down further. But it usually ends with something like, "I want my LP to sound like Jimmy Page on *song*." "Well, that was a Telecaster." Or I want my LP to sound like Clapton on *Song*." "Well, that was a 335."

Picking the correct axe, amp and effects is WAY more important than pickups, but for many pickups seems to be the first thing they want to blame.

But if you are considering a pickup change just be aware that anyone who says "Buy brand X so-and-so's" without first asking what you want and what your rig and situation is - probably isn't helping. NO PICKUPS are universally the best. That's why Lindy, Seymour, et. al., have different ones to choose from.

Good pickups with a good adjustment will be pushing the amp with the volume open and clean up when the volume is rolled off slightly. Since clean cuts better than OD they won's have much of a perceived volume loss until around 7.5. They will have good string-to-string balance and that's about all you need. After that, it's up to the player.


Chuck

 

[GreenBurst]

...just be aware that anyone who says "Buy brand X so-and-so's" without first asking what you want and what your rig and situation is - probably isn't helping. NO PICKUPS are universally the best. That's why Lindy, Seymour, et. al., have different ones to choose from.

Chuck

 

[spidey]

Absolutely agree. I bought a 335 back in 2017 that came fitted with Burst Buckers. I always felt the pups were underpowered and uninspiring. I started to use a clean boost to get some 'go' into them.

A couple of years ago I discovered this video -

I adjusted the height of my pups to match the recommended heights (they were set way lower) and they came to life. The pickups now sound great and can see why Warren Haynes has them in his sig 335 and Les-Paul.

The guitar now sounds exactly how I wanted it to sound.

 

[charliechitlins]

I always encourage people to explore the limits of adjustability.
Crank those pickups all the way up.
Then all the way down.
Crank one up and the other down.
Set your neck dead straight.
Try .020" relief.
Turn the treble on your amp all the way up and the bass all the way down.
Many of us seem to crave the middle ground.
My knobs are all halfway up ...that seems reasonable.
I have found, for instance, that some guitars come alive with particular truss rod adjustment...maybe they like X amount of tension on the neck...and it's not always where you'd put it with a feeler gauge.
I don't buy many pickups, parts, effects, etc. The majority of my experimentation is in settings.
For instance, I just built a parts Tele from a few people's abandoned projects.
The first time I fired it up, it sounded like a Strat "between" sound on a Clapton Strat with mid boost.
The quacky-est Strat sound I've ever heard.
Unfortunately, I don't like that sound.
In a few minutes of adjusting pickup height, I had the middle position sounding like a proper Tele.
Single coil pickups seem to be affected most by adjustment.
I have a Supro that can get God's own slide tone or sound like the cheap POS it is with some shockingly minor pole piece twiddling.

 

[WTF Cat]

I always encourage people to explore the limits of adjustability.
Crank those pickups all the way up.
Then all the way down.
Crank one up and the other down.
Set your neck dead straight.
Try .020" relief.
Turn the treble on your amp all the way up and the bass all the way down.
Many of us seem to crave the middle ground.
My knobs are all halfway up ...that seems reasonable.
I have found, for instance, that some guitars come alive with particular truss rod adjustment...maybe they like X amount of tension on the neck...and it's not always where you'd put it with a feeler gauge.
I don't buy many pickups, parts, effects, etc. The majority of my experimentation is in settings.
For instance, I just built a parts Tele from a few people's abandoned projects.
The first time I fired it up, it sounded like a Strat "between" sound on a Clapton Strat with mid boost.
The quacky-est Strat sound I've ever heard.
Unfortunately, I don't like that sound.
In a few minutes of adjusting pickup height, I had the middle position sounding like a proper Tele.
Single coil pickups seem to be affected most by adjustment.
I have a Supro that can get God's own slide tone or sound like the cheap POS it is with some shockingly minor pole piece twiddling.

This is the way: experimentation before wasting money.

 

[Telechamp]

This is the way: experimentation before wasting money.

Good advice. When I bought my 2013 LP Studio, the stock 490R/498T pickups seemed pretty muddy. So I raised the pups - and continually adjusted them - until they sounded good to my ears. That really did actually work!

 

[WTF Cat]

Good advice. When I bought my 2013 LP Studio, the stock 490R/498T pickups seemed pretty muddy. So I raised the pups - and continually adjusted them - until they sounded good to my ears. That really did actually work!

Now that $150-500 is burning a hole in your pocket lol.

 

[Telechamp]

Now that $150-500 is burning a hole in your pocket lol.

And no more mud!

 

[Big Daddy Class]

I'm probably going to get some hate for this, but I consider it the single easiest mod that most people can make. Pickups are essentially a magnet, a length of wire, a plastic bobbin, some pole pieces, and some screws. I have no idea how many millions have been spent attempting to change this simplistic design--but it is a lot. In one of the guitar books that I was reading, Seth Lover said before his death that pickups of that era were better than the original ones he had designed. That was I believe 1998 or so. I have no idea how many more attempted updates and upgrades to his original design have been made since that time but again--it is a lot. Do you think we might be overthinking it just a bit?

Raising and lowering a pickup can make it either brighter or muddier. Every time I hear someone say "these pickups are too muddy", I always think why don't you just raise them a little bit? It is like single easiest "mod" that a person can make. Requires no special tools except a screwdriver and it's instantly and easily reversible. I tell kids to turn it about 1/2 a turn see what you think then turn it back and see what you think. if you practice this then move on to the pole pieces you can almost always dial in the tone you're looking for. What I perceive that many are doing is just changing pickups until they accidentally find a model that is dialed in for their tastes and spending big bucks buying different versions of the exact same thing. This is not to say that there are not different tones with the different magnets nor that some manufacturers are not working very hard to produce a serious product, but again do you think we might be slightly overthinking it?
Next rant--you can swap out the magnets, too. That costs about $2.

 

[FregGarvinMP]

I just had a similar wow experience with a 64 RI 335 that i recently bought. It has custom buckers. I had it for a week and had been tweaking it like crazy all week. The bridge was too thin and neck to woofy. I was in the I just don't like custom buckers camp. I'm not new to this whole thing, yet sometimes it feels like I am.

I was setting the pickup heights by eye based on my other 335 (MHS pickups, totally different). Of courese, that's a mistake I know.

I finally thought ok let me start with suggested pickup height specs. I set the bridge pickup height to spec. Then turned tone knob down to get a bridge sound I liked. Then I lowered the neck pu to match the ouput of the bridge pickup's output. I had to lower the neck pickup a lot lower than on my other 335. (Of course, I usually lower the neck pickups on Les Pauls down to at least being flush with the pickup ring.)

I couldn't believe how it brought the whole thing alive. The bridge was already about where it needed to be, but whatever slight change i did to it, it was better. The neck was WAY better. No woofy'ness from the neck. You play a chuck berry type bar chord rhythm and it was perfectly warm and not too boomy. The custom buckers sound great now.

Before this I was thinking the neck was just not matched to the bridge well and I'll need to swap one or both out (they are about the same ouput, bridge 8.0, neck 7.9).

 

[charliechitlins]

Let us not forget our old friend, the volume knob.
I once shocked someone (and myself!) by getting a very woody, PAF-ish tone from a Dimarzio Super Distortion by simply rolling off the volume.

 

[Offshore Angler]

Ain't no pickup in the world or any amount of adjusting gonna make your DR sound like an SLO -100. Always keep that in mind. Like I tell a lot of folks, you're not using the wrong pickups, you're using the wrong tubes. Or speakers.


That's why you need to ask many questions as opposed to having some internet guru tell you out of thin air what pickups you'll prefer. 6V6's sound and react TOTALLY different than EL34s, 6L6's or EL84s. Not to mention tube vs SS rectifiers. Do you prefer the sound of Celestions, EV's, Jensens, Cannabis Rex, Widows? They all sound different and will have different "feel".

So, if you think your "Tone" is in your pickups - rotsa ruck.

Plug your axe into a Deluxe or a 5150 and it will sound completely different. I won't even mention mic type and placement.

Point here is, pickups are the very last thing I would change if I wanted to have a different sound. Pickup Height is the same. It depends on everything from the speaker backwards, so every situation is unique.
As a guitarist it's paramount you learn how to tune your rig. And sometimes you'll end up with multiple amps types to fill out the EQ as you want it.

Here's the funny part: back in the 80's EARLY 90'S when changing pickups became "a thing' everyone was throwing out their tarbacks and PAFs. Now those are highly sought after and expensive as used parts, lol.

So, before you spend money and violate your beautiful guitar ask yourself, "Is it really my pickups or am I just chasing a sound that isn't in my rig?"


Chuck

 

[charliechitlins]

This is true.
Pickups are the low hanging fruit.
It's like everybody with a Harley who starts "customizing" it by putting fancy mirrors on. It's one nut. It's easy. The results are commensurate with the effort.
The VAST majority of tone is in your amp.
5 different guitars will sound much more the same in 1 amp than 1 guitar will sound through 5 amps.
I'm not totally convinced of the argument concerning different output tubes.
The Brits did a pretty good job of getting 6L6 sounds from EL34s because it's what they had.
Certain circuits ("British") tend to use EL84s and others ("American") use 6V6s, and, although the tube makes a difference, I think most of what you hear is the circuit.

 

[Offshore Angler]

The other thing is most people don’t understand the effect of the wall outlet on your sound sound.

If you want pure British blues tone here in the US you’ll eventually work the Kikusuis into your rig.

 

[Offshore Angler]

OK back to pickup height, there's a very quick and easy hack for finding the optimum height:

Go to your neck pickup and play a string on the 3rd fret, listen, and then on the 15th fret and listen. There's going to be about an 1/8" difference in the working pickup height between the two on the front pickup. You generally want to set it to where the open strings and low frets sound strong and clear but not so high that they flub out on the high frets. Once you have that adjust the treble pup to give you the volume balance you want - since the treble pup height is affected less by fretting.

Too low usually isn't that bad but setting pickups too high results in all kinds of issues. Loss of sustain is one of the first things.

No charge,

Chuck

 

[Offshore Angler]

Let me pass on another pickup height trick to the younger guys:

Optimum pickup height is going to be dependent upon what you're plugging into sometimes. If you like to run them high you may run into clipping issues with modelers. No worries if you just pad you input 5 or 6 dB. For tube amps you may lose headroom with high pickups. Again, if you prefer them high but you're getting squishy simply take your EQ pedal and set the overall output lower. Or just roll your guitar volume down a bit. The big thing here is don't be afraid to experiment. That's why they have adjustment screws.

If you like a clean amp and use pedals for dirt you'll want them set differently than using an overdriven amp. For tube amp I like to find where the amp starts to hiss and back off slightly (that's "the hump") and then adjust the pups to where I just start to overdrive the amp with the guitar volume around 7. That way, I can go cleaner or dirtier with the volume, i.e., after about 7 the volume guitar volume is sort of a gain control.

Point here should be coming though by now. There is no universal "proper" setting. It depends on what type of music you play. what amp you use, how your rig is configured, how hard you pick, etc. You just need to mess with them until you get what you're looking for. ALL Gibson full-size humbuckers are great. Wherever you set them to make you happy is correct.

And for the umpteenth time I'll just pass along that an EQ pedal is the first one you should by. You can use it for shaping, use it as a clean boost, an overdrive, and more. For half the price of a set of pickups you'll get ten times the tone.

Chuck

 

[GreenBurst]

https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/pteq.html