Floating string tension in LTD EC-256

[Wilko]

All in your head

 

[Wally]

All of that is of interest in building the string.
And yes, over the age/use of the string the metal fatigue dies cusse the tension to change enough to yield notes that no longer are the correct pitch…..the intonation of fretted notes is slightly fkst.
However, the OP. States that from day to day his guitars go from stiff to comfortable and back again while the tuning pitch remains the same. I have never seen a guitar string do this, and I work on guitars every day.
I also do not experience old strings that are stiffer/harder to play IF they are kept clean.

 

[sepb]

All in your head

With advice like that, I suggest you go share it on a menopause women’s forum. I currently have four guitars here — an LTD TE-220, a PRS CE, a Jackson Dinky, and a Squier Telecaster — and none of them have this issue. So maybe take your theories about what people have in their heads to a different forum!

 

[Any Name You Wish]

Maybe the frets need polish to make bends feel smooth and easy. Get some fret polish and go to work on it. Or, in my best snarky voice, throw it out and get another $500 guitar

 

[Offshore Angler]

by any chance did you use pencil lead to lubricate the nut?

Can you make any correlation between feel and the weather?

 

[Wally]

I finished a set-up on a high dollar guitar for
a player one time, and he just was not happy. After a minute, he asked me if I had any Fast Fret. Sure thing….I don’ t use it unless I know a player uses it. A minute later he was a happy player.
Sometimes minute things can be felt. Hands that are damp or not clean. Grime build up…even slight…on the neck and/or strings. That said, I still hold that the tension doesn’t change unless the pitch also has changed.

 

[Wilko]

With advice like that, I suggest you go share it on a menopause women’s forum. I currently have four guitars here — an LTD TE-220, a PRS CE, a Jackson Dinky, and a Squier Telecaster — and none of them have this issue. So maybe take your theories about what people have in their heads to a different forum!

I don’t dfucking care. What you are describing is physically impossible. Perhaps you should consider the very real possibility that it’s all in your head and not be such an ass.

 

[sepb]

by any chance did you use pencil lead to lubricate the nut?

Can you make any correlation between feel and the weather?

I tried Big Bends Nut Sauce, and honestly, I’ll tell you that when I have the window open in my apartment and it’s colder outside, you can feel it more. The thing is, it changes dynamically—for example, I play, put the guitar down, pick it up again after 5 minutes, and the feel of the strings is completely different.

I found two identical cases from Les Paul users on another forum, but the issue was never ultimately resolved.

 

[sepb]

I don’t dfucking care. What you are describing is physically impossible. Perhaps you should consider the very real possibility that it’s all in your head and not be such an ass.

I finished a set-up on a high dollar guitar for
a player one time, and he just was not happy. After a minute, he asked me if I had any Fast Fret. Sure thing….I don’ t use it unless I know a player uses it. A minute later he was a happy player.
Sometimes minute things can be felt. Hands that are damp or not clean. Grime build up…even slight…on the neck and/or strings. That said, I still hold that the tension doesn’t change unless the pitch also has changed.

I even made sure by comparing other guitars to see if the same thing happens—but it doesn’t. When the strings feel looser, they even sound different. Also, when I run a pick between the tailpiece and the bridge, or between the nut and the tuning pegs, the tension returns to normal.





The tension itself probably doesn’t actually change, but the perceived tension changes a lot—like when you raise the tailpiece all the way up or lower it; the tension stays the same, but the difference in feel is huge, as if the strings were looser or tighter, even though physically they remain the same.

 

[Offshore Angler]

Are you top wrapped?

 

[Offshore Angler]

Upon pondering this I’m thinking the nut is the most likely issue. Check that the G,B, & D string slots are properly angled towards the pegs. Next time it happens check intonation and see if it changed.

 

[sepb]

Are you top wrapped?

Upon pondering this I’m thinking the nut is the most likely issue. Check that the G,B, & D string slots are properly angled towards the pegs. Next time it happens check intonation and see if it changed.

I tried top wrapping and it masked the effect a bit; I’ll try cutting the nut slightly at an angle toward the tuners.

 

[Offshore Angler]

Yeah, my gut tells me you have a couple of things going on. Probably a neck that swings back and forth on relief with the environment and that gets exacerbated by a poorly cut nut. Some necks are rock-solid stable and others have "personality". Best thing I can tell you if this happens on your guitars is to buy a Keisel, those necks are so stiff and stable they never move.

That LTD is an entry-level budget guitar and I doubt it has a quarter-sawn neck so that will contribute to it being less stable than a more high-end guitar too. Hey, most of us started on inexpensive guitars so no shame there. I had a plastic LP copy!

That said, I think you'll find that when the day comes that you can move up to a more professional quality guitar you'll find a lot of these types of random issues disappear and they really do play better. But in the meantime- keep on rockin! Play it like you stole it baby! Some of the greatest music of my generation was recorded on inexpensive guitars of dubious quality. Plus, better to learn how to work on your guitars with a budget guitar than a Murphy Lab R9. Enjoy the journey man - we've all been down the same road you're on and respect you for it. You're part of the fraternity now.

Chuck

 

[sepb]

You're "holding" is incorrect. Look at a .010" diameter string tuned to E. That's about 18 pounds of force. Since stress in the string is force per unit area Pi(()D^2/4 gives us an area of .000078 inch squared. So divide 18 pounds by .000078 inches and you get over 200,000 psi of stress in the string. Now, without drawing a free body diagram and vector analysis you'll just have to take it on face that when you apply a side force as in bending the string the tension goes way up. So besides increasing the tension, we need to consider the modulus of elasticity of the string and Poisson's ratio. So it's a double hit, the tension goes up and the area decreases increasing the stress. Since we're already dividing by a really small number you can see how high the stresses are on the string.

Ok, so next consideration. The string was manufactured but rolling and squeezing an ingot and then drawing that material through smaller and smaller dies until the desired diameter is achieved. Much of this, especially the die work is what we call "cold working" processes. These result in interstitial grain boundary irregularities of the metal's crystal structure. These are commonly referred to as "slip planes" in the metal's grain structure.

When we evaluate materials such as steels we refer to Yield strength and Ultimate strength. Yield strength is when the metal had exceeded it's ability to remain elastic, aka, spring back. Ultimate is when it breaks. With a string you can visualize that once it is not longer acting like a spring it starts to "neck down" and hence, the area gets smaller increasing the stress causing it to neck down more and, well you see what the final result is.

But - and here's where basic theory and applied engineering diverge - when you get down to very small areas, because of the tiny cross section and the random distribution of slip planes in the metal structure, you cannot take a macro view of the material's properties. So sure, you look in the handbook and the steel has a published yield strength, but because the area is so small the microscopic irregularities in the metal's grain structure result in areas where the yield strength are locally lower than the macro properties of the steel. This causes the metal grains to "slip" along some grain boundaries and this results in "creep" in the steel.

So what happens now? The diameter of the sting is altered and as such , its linear density has changed. And if it's linear density changes, the tension required for a specific pitch will change.

Ain't science cool!?

So is this the cause of the OP's qualitative observation? Probably not but we all know new strings are nice and slinky and old ones are stiff. This probably due more to pitting and wearing off the plating if I had to guess.

I changed the strings to a different brand. I filed the nut slots a bit and reinstalled the String Butler so the strings run straight, because my files are pretty poor and I wouldn’t be able to shape the slots nicely toward the tuners. However, I did widen the slots slightly using files a bit larger than the strings and created a proper angle toward the headstock.


I have the impression that when I increase the neck relief, the problem becomes a bit smaller and the strings feel looser at 0.25 mm relief compared to the previous 0.15 mm (where nothing was buzzing). I’ll also try raising the tailpiece significantly to achieve an effect similar to top wrapping. But the issue is still there.


You also mentioned changes in environmental conditions, and I’ve been wondering about that—because I have fairly high humidity at home due to a large aquarium, and maybe that’s the cause… I’m just not sure if those changes could really be that dynamic.

Thank you very much for the tips.