• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

ES-335 Pickup Decision

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
I have an '85 335 Dot Neck w/ Shaw('s) installed. Purchased it about 20 years ago. I upgraded the pots to 500k long ago, but the orig ceramic caps are still in place. I have not messed w/ the pickups. Recently, the neck pickup was cutting in & out. I tracked it down to a frayed wire causing the pup to short-out. I managed to splice the wires back together w/ the piece of wire that was hardly long enough coming out of the cavity from the pot. Kinda hokey, but it's working once again & the guitar sounds good.

While working on it, I measured the resistance & was surprised to see how low they read out (7.23k & 7.25k). There is a Shaw ink stamp on the neck pup (379), but none on the bridge, only pat #'s. Since the lead neck wire was broken, this got me thinking of doing an overhaul w/ a new wiring harness. I have an RS upgrade kit, black beauty caps & a few humbucker sets on hand. At this time, I'd also like to add 'connectors' to the leads & pup wires so I can facilitate pickup changes if I so feel...w/o having to yank the whole harness.

Pickups I have: Seth Lovers, SD 50th Anniv Seths, ThroBak SLE-101 Ltd's & a couple of Genesis sets. I don't want the guitar to become any brighter than it already is. I guess what I'm looking for is everyone's thoughts/suggestions on this? I would like to see a little more output rather than the 7.2k readings.

I also got these Sprague Caps & I'm not sure if they are the correct value...?
 

TM1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
I'm guessing that the caps are .02's? Same thing as a .022 They should work just fine. there's noreal difference between a .02 & a .022 except the lettering. A .02 would be the same as .020 and you just won't hear any difference between .02 vs. .022 in a guitar. A smaller value cap like say a .01 or .015 just rolls off less highs than say a .033 or even the .02 The larger the value of the cap, the more bass freq.'s are passed thru.
If it were my guitar, I'd use the Throbak's as I think personally, the Seth's are going to be brighter. I have a set that SD gave me a couple years back and they don't push the bottom end in the guitar I had them in (an ES-339). I think the overall better pickup are the SLE-101 Ltd.'s
I had an `81 ES-335 Dot and I remember not liking the pickups in that guitar. I ended up using a set of early, original Pearly Gates which sounded considerably better than the Shaw's. I thought the early T-Tops sound better than the Shaw's (still do). this was the `80's BTW...Wish I had that guitar back (s/n# 80351018).
 

Mr. Papa

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Messages
1,418
I didn't like Seths in my semi-hollowbody, but I don't know what sort of tone you want. I found them to be sort of ... wussy. I like something more like 8.5-9K in the bridge of a semi-hollow.
I think the 'connectors' idea is a good one, as replacing pickups in a 335 is miserable.
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
I put a pair of Thrōbak MXV SLE's in my 339 and I really like it. Excellent harmonics and cream. But here's the weird one. I got one of those Lemonburst 335's with the DiMarzio's in it (Doublecream DP103's) and I can't put it down! It is really hard hitting, pops you in the chest. Dirts up fantastic, but roll back on the volume and it cleans up well. Not sparkly, powerful and full. I have a toolbox full of high end and vintage PU's and these really match this 335 better than most I have played. I would not have guessed it, I figured I was going to buy this one and put something else in it. It came well matched. I have a pretty expensive Collings I-35 with the Lollar Imperials in it and this one hits right in that tone zone. Just a thought if you want to try something different.
 

Minibucker

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2003
Messages
6,372
If you can get a set of plain ol' '57 Classics (maybe a 57+ in the bridge), many players like those in a 335.
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
But here's the weird one. I got one of those Lemonburst 335's with the DiMarzio's in it (Doublecream DP103's).
Just a thought if you want to try something different.

As much as I'd like get a set of those Dimarzio's 50th Anniversary's, I think I'm on-hold spending-wise for a spell. I just bought a Sheptone Bridge p-up off ebay to match a Sheptone neck p-up I already have. So this will make another set in the mix...

Also on the table is a PAF-4 set I'm in the process of landing from Ralph Halsey at RHFactor. I get a discount from him being a member of the Finishing Forum, so his pickups are very tempting $-wise. I've been getting his Strat, Tele & P-90 pickups lately...For the price, I can't complain & they sound great. They aren't listed on his site, but he has them on ebay for everyone to view. RHFactor

Thx TMI. I value your insight. I am leaning towards the ThroBaks & have the connectors in place already. I had them installed in a LP I made & they sounded damn good, but pulled them in favor of a Fralin P-92 set only because I really want to hear how the Throbaks will sound in my 335.

I've done the Nashville to Faber ABR-1 switch, Faber Tone-Loc TP studs w/ steel bushings & that alone added a lot of dynamic. Really, the only upgrade left, is the harness, pickups & caps. Having connectors on the leads will make for easy pickup changes if the sound isn't what I'm looking for? :jim

Thx all for your comments...
 
Last edited:

latestarter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
4,173
I'd have thought the Thro's would still be bright. But they will sound good. I do like Shaw's from that period and even with 500k pots don't find them bright in guitars I have them in. But of course, the sound will be the sum of all parts so you might hear something different. Also, +1 on the connector idea. 335's and wiring....no thanks. Pics?
 

Kris Ford

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
4,003
I thought the early T-Tops sound better than the Shaw's (still do).

Me too..T Tops are pretty magical..I love the set of Patent# Sticker T Tops in my '71 SG.
Real T Tops are getting crazy high priced, but there's also scoring a 490R, and replacing the A2 mag for a short A5=T Top..it sounds god damn almost exactly the same..and is SUPER cheap to do..
T Tops in an ES do sound bitchin'...:yah
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
Also, +1 on the connector idea. 335's and wiring....no thanks. Pics?

Later on w/ the pics. Have a concert to go to...! My granddaughter's playing Clarinet in her elementary school Xmas concert. :lol
 

Progrocker111

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
4,013
Throbaks would do much better in that guitar than original Shaws. Or early T-Tops as suggested above pass great in good ES335s, they are very dynamic and articulate.
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
Hooking up connectors:

I suppose there's a few ways to make this work, but since I use mostly Braided Cable, this is how I went about making the connectors. Probably simpler if you don't have braided cable? There are connectors available for 4-conductor wiring for coil-tapping, which I don't have a need for. I would have liked to have gotten a bit smaller connector, but in haste, I hurriedly got some at a nearby electronix store. I also ordered a different type online that are inbound, but they're a 3-pin type. I have no idea how big they are, but look simpler to deal with. The connectors in the pic below, are for the size (18 ga) wire on most pickups. There's many connectors to choose from. I think they're called Molex..? These also might work but they're 22 ga wire?

Mark your + & - on the connectors, so as not mix/cross the wires...! Separating the cloth wire (hot) out of the braided cable (ground) is the hardest part. I used a scribe & a small crochet needle to separate the braid, then slowly fish/wiggle the cloth line out of the braid. You don't want to damage the cloth line. Once the wire is out, trim-up the ends & tin them w/ your iron, as well as the little metal clips that insert into the plastic connectors. At this time, I slip-on a small piece of heat-shrink tubing onto the wire (You'll later slide the shrink back up to the connector once you're done soldering the wires to the clips & inserting the clips into the plastic sleeves).

Solder the wires to the clips & crimp the little open pieces closed for added strength. They're now ready to insert into the correct connector slot (the one's you marked ~ right? ). They will lock-in tightly. Push the heat-shrink tubing back up & put the torch to it. The clips can also be removed w/ a tool or small needle if need be (note: the connector might not fit through the hole that leads to the pots, so it [wire from pot] can be assembled & coupled to the pickup coupler after you've installed your wiring harness & run the wire to pup cavity). ---> Couple the connectors together & measure the resistance to see if you get a good reading. :jim

I've yet to make the harness, so the wires on the right are only for show. I left the pup leads long in case I want to do something else or sell them later on.

 
Last edited:

DonR

New member
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
1,000
I have replaced shaws in an 82 and an 85 es335 with klein semi hollow set. They are 7.4 neck and 7.8 bridge and sound great. you could go with his 59 set as well whitch are 7.9 ea I think anything over 8 is two much for a 335, although some of the 59's where hotter. Best one I've heard is joe bonamassa's 61 and they are both 7.65k.

DonR
 

TM1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
I think a lot of people forget that until the last part of the 70's, most pickups in Gibson's were of the same readings. There wasn't a "Neck" or "Bridge" position pickup. They were all pretty much the same readings. Fender and Gretsch were the same thing. These companies only wound one version of a pickup.
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
I think the overall better pickup are the SLE-101 Ltd.'s

Throbaks would do much better in that guitar than original Shaws. .

Hell ya say...!

Got everything all back together & went w/ the SLE's. And here I've been stuck on Shaw's for the last 20 years. Yikes, coupled w/ the Black Beauties ~ Awesome sounding in my 335. Why'd I even bother making connectors. Harmonics, clarity, balance, output, it's all there....These are stayin' put. :jim

On the harness, I decided to use the pots & wiring that were in place. About 10 years ago I put in 500k pots. All I had to do is replace the ceramic caps w/ the BB's & run the connector wires. Still a struggle getting it all back in & took a good part of a day. Worse part, when I got it wrapped up & playing, I noticed a ground wire on the 3-way was on the verge of breaking & so it did. I managed to gt it fixed & all is good. Wiring my 330 was a much easier task.

Thx all....
 

TM1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
Hell ya say...!

Got everything all back together & went w/ the SLE's. And here I've been stuck on Shaw's for the last 20 years. Yikes, coupled w/ the Black Beauties ~ Awesome sounding in my 335. Why'd I even bother making connectors. Harmonics, clarity, balance, output, it's all there....These are stayin' put. :jim

On the harness, I decided to use the pots & wiring that were in place. About 10 years ago I put in 500k pots. All I had to do is replace the ceramic caps w/ the BB's & run the connector wires. Still a struggle getting it all back in & took a good part of a day. Worse part, when I got it wrapped up & playing, I noticed a ground wire on the 3-way was on the verge of breaking & so it did. I managed to gt it fixed & all is good. Wiring my 330 was a much easier task.

Thx all....

Excellent!!
 

Progrocker111

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
4,013
Got everything all back together & went w/ the SLE's. And here I've been stuck on Shaw's for the last 20 years. Yikes, coupled w/ the Black Beauties ~ Awesome sounding in my 335. Why'd I even bother making connectors. Harmonics, clarity, balance, output, it's all there....These are stayin' put. :jim

What are Shaws cons in comparison to Throbaks?
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
What are Shaws cons in comparison to Throbaks?

I'd say the T-Baks have a little more of everything over Shaws. Bear in mind that I'm not well-versed in describing what one pup sounds like over another, but I know what I like & what sounds good.

Shaw's output is def not a strong as Throbaks & in note articulation. The bridge pup is esp good. Rolling the tone back 1/2 way puts it in the zone 4 me. The Shaw bridge pup never sounded this good. Makes me wonder if it's even a Shaw(?) since there is no ink stamp on the bridge pup, only the neck pickup. Now that it's removed, I'll have to crack it open & see how it's made. I'm still in 'test mode' as I haven't had a chance to get down to adjusting p-up & pole heights yet for optimum balance. I'd say, the overall character of Throbak's compared to Shaws...is superior w/ clarity & harmonics being the main components. Nothing really terrible to say about Shaw's, I just think they're a tamer PAF pickup in comparison...

Playing through a couple of Blkface Fenders (Princeton Rvb & Dlx Rvb) makes for some good ear candy. :jim
 
Last edited:

TM1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
If I remember, the Shaws had the normal T-Top bobbins. I think the ones that followed the Shaws were the Bill Lawrence circuit board pickups and the bridge had a wider spacing.Those pickups sounded terrible. I had an `89 `62 SG Std that had the Lawrence's and those pickups went within a day or two of buying the guitar.
I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong...
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
If I remember, the Shaws had the normal T-Top bobbins. I think the ones that followed the Shaws were the Bill Lawrence circuit board pickups and the bridge had a wider spacing..

I didn't open the pickups, but I can see the white plastic spacers under both baseplates. Pole spacing is the same on both as well (49.2mm). Barely seeing the ink code on the neck pup, it reads 379-?85 & my Dot Neck is an '85. So they must be Shaw's...?

Reading about 'taking resitance readings' on a Lollar Blog, he explains how much a pickup's resistance can differ w/ various temps. Something I never took into account. That explains why I initially got low readings on the Shaws. My shop temp is well below warm (55 degrees). Measuring at room temp, they jumped substantially to around 7.42k/7.45k. And further warming under the bride's armpit :rofl 7.8K

I remember the BL Circuit Boards pups. They were terrible!
 

krapac

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
380
Not all Shaws had Ttop bobbin, some have a close opaque bobbin, some have Paf style bobbin. I still have in original Gibson box the 3 PUs type that i've buyied new in '82 and a pair that came from a same period Lester.
 
Top