Difference between 57's and Goldtop 58's?

[Standard Magic]

Were the early 58's the same as 57's just that they were made into the new year or, were the GT 58's like the latter burst 58's but with the previous finish? Were they different at all other than the finish?

 

[F-Hole]

Same

 

[DutchRay]

Gibson biggest changes were always after summer NAMM. Not sure if this has anything to do with the planning of guitars but their business year runs from April 1st till March 31st.
The sales guys were always pushing for new specs, a lot of guitars were sold directly out of the sales guy's car. Somewhere along the line Gibson deceided to make small changes at winter NAMM and bigger changes at summer NAMM.
The '58 Les Paul was mostly identical to a late '57 until the summer of 1958 and then changed to the new spec, the sunburst finish.
I recently looked at the '57-'58 goldtop differences and there are three 'runs' or 'variations' of Les Pauls in 1957/58.
The first run had a low logo, black plastic parts and no P.A.F. stickers, the second run had a low logo, white plastic parts and P.A.F. stickers, the last run had the higher logo, white parts and stickers.
Black plastic parts are replaced for white between 7 2916 and 7 2918 and somewhere between 7 5714 and 7 6177, the position of the logo changed.
The last goldtop appears to be 8 396x.

 

[G650]

The only 57 to 58 end of year change over I know of is the stairstep route in the switch cavity.

 

[G650]

The last goldtop appears to be 8 2810.

I think it's more in the 39xx to 4xxx range.

 

[DutchRay]

I think it's more in the 39xx to 4xxx range.

Sharp eye, I knew there was something off. Post has been edited!

 

[Standard Magic]

Very interesting and astute, thanks. What about the neck thickness? What about the sound/pickup windings? This would be difficult to tell, I've only heard them in online examples/comparisons, they seem to sound the same.

 

[Tim]

I've read the first paf's in '57 had formvar wire. Have no idea when it changed to plain enamel.

 

[sws1]

Timeline
'57
No sticker PAF (w/ different wire); low logo; black parts
No sticker PAF; low logo; cream parts
PAFs; low logo; cream parts
PAFs; raised logo; cream parts

'58
PAFs; raised logo; cream parts (continuing from '57)
PAFs; raised logo; cream parts; wider switch cavity routing
Bursts

P90s were interspersed in '57 but mostly early

 

[Standard Magic]

Wow, the above is really thorough and paints an interesting picture. It's strange that the 57's don't get lumped in with 58/59/60's, just because of the colour!

 

[G650]

They probably won't catch the 59's, but the 57's are on their way as well to crazy valuations. There are just very few of them. 58 bursts as well are rarer than the others.

 

[CptZar]

Early 57 have brushed nickel pick up covers.

 

[57gold]

With sharper corners on SS covers and generally lower output pickups than late 1958 PAFs and beyond.

See my early 1957 below:

 

[CptZar]

Beauty. Outstanding.

 

[Standard Magic]

generally lower output pickups than late 1958 PAFs and beyond.

This is how Gibson seems to reissue the R7's, when I played one it was explained to me they have lower out put pickups compared to the bursts, that R7 sure sounded it did.

 

[paulster]

Gibson biggest changes were always after summer NAMM. Not sure if this has anything to do with the planning of guitars but their business year runs from April 1st till March 31st.
The sales guys were always pushing for new specs, a lot of guitars were sold directly out of the sales guy's car. Somewhere along the line Gibson deceided to make small changes at winter NAMM and bigger changes at summer NAMM.
The '58 Les Paul was mostly identical to a late '57 until the summer of 1958 and then changed to the new spec, the sunburst finish.
I recently looked at the '57-'58 goldtop differences and there are three 'runs' or 'variations' of Les Pauls in 1957/58.
The first run had a low logo, black plastic parts and no P.A.F. stickers, the second run had a low logo, white plastic parts and P.A.F. stickers, the last run had the higher logo, white parts and stickers.
Black plastic parts are replaced for white between 7 2916 and 7 2918 and somewhere between 7 5714 and 7 6177, the position of the logo changed.
The last goldtop appears to be 8 396x.

also didnt the first version pickups have silver colored screws instead of brass?
i know outputs could vary a lot and my brushed ss pickups take a backseat to no others! just loud and awesome

 

[paulster]

Timeline
'57
No sticker PAF (w/ different wire); low logo; black parts
No sticker PAF; low logo; cream parts
PAFs; low logo; cream parts
PAFs; raised logo; cream parts

'58
PAFs; raised logo; cream parts (continuing from '57)
PAFs; raised logo; cream parts; wider switch cavity routing
Bursts

P90s were interspersed in '57 but mostly early

wider switch cavity routing? would this be a good way to spot an old goldtop thats been retopped to a 58 or later style guitar? do you know what the measurement differences are?
really interesting!

 

[sws1]

wider switch cavity routing? would this be a good way to spot an old goldtop thats been retopped to a 58 or later style guitar? do you know what the measurement differences are?
really interesting!

Don't know the measurements, but it's pretty obvious to the eye.

 

[G650]

wider switch cavity routing? would this be a good way to spot an old goldtop thats been retopped to a 58 or later style guitar? do you know what the measurement differences are?
really interesting!

I don't know what the small or step route size is but I can measure my full non step route on my 58. But as @sws1 says it's readily apparent just by looking

 

[T.Allen]

also didnt the first version pickups have silver colored screws instead of brass?
i know outputs could vary a lot and my brushed ss pickups take a backseat to no others! just loud and awesome

My late '57 has stainless steel screws.