Dating PAF's after 62

[Barytoni]

Found an old PAF in a 62 Fender Jaguar. Has Patent No. 2.737,842 sticker on the bottom and black plastic surround, chrome screw heads. Any other ways to date these?
I'm sure this topic has been covered here before but i'm new being a Fender guy. (I know the 'F' word).

 

[Ed Rafalko]

I don't think PAFS really count past 1961.
But if it has CHROME on it it's from post-1969.

 

[BCR/Greg]

Dating PAFs can be tough. I drove by this one pickup's house 20 times before I had the courage to ask her out....

I know, I know, stick to guitars, Greg!

PAFs are "Patent Applied For" pickups. There were no chrome pole PAFs. The later pickups are "Patent Sticker" or "Patent Stamp" pickups. Does your pickup have "T" on the top of the coils? If so, it's definitely a later 60's pickup.

 

[daze]

Dating PAFs can be tough. I drove by this one pickup's house 20 times before I had the courage to ask her out....

:lolspin :lolspin :lolspin

DAZE

 

[Barytoni]

Yes it does have the T on top also with H1 and H4 on each.

The adjustable polepieces have the chrome heads.

The Patent No sticker on back is black w/ gold letters.

 

[Tonefiend]

T tops came in around '64 I think. And about 65 or 66 they switched from Nickel to chrome. I had about a '73 or '74 Les Paul that had a Pat sticker t top in it so I know they were used until the mid '70s.

 

[BrianGWN]

The story as I understand it is that the T top bobbins were introduced in 1967, while the switch from nickel hardware to chrome was around 1965. As such there are such things out there as earlier patent sticker pups with nickel covers, would have been from around '62 through '64.

As well as switching to the T top bobbins around 1967, one other detail that changed was the color of the intermediate wire that goes from the fine 42 gauge coil wire to the single conductor braided shield. With PAFs both of the intermediate wires were black. Around '67 or so was when they also switched to using one black and one white wire, normally the two whites got connected in joining the coils in-series and the two blacks became the hot output and frame ground connections. If you remove a pickup's cover and outer wrap of tape you should be able to see those intermediate wires. With the two whites after they are joined they are often partially tucked in between the two bobbins.

While we are at it, it was around 1974 or so that the move was made to stamping that fake patent number into the metal frame of the pickups.
:dude

 

[Doc]

Chrome Patent number p/u

I have a '65 Sg standard that I know for certain is all original and it has chrome covered patent number p/u's.

Doc

 

[Stu]

Doc,

Do the tuners on your SG say "Kluson Deluxe" or "Gibson Deluxe"? My '64 has had Grovers at some point, but I bought it with Klusons on it. I'm not sure that they are the orginal ones - they're stamped with "Gibson Deluxe". They are nickel plated, not chrome.

Thanks,

Stu

 

[Doc]

Stu

I'll take a look ...I can't remember but will look tonight.

Doc

 

[60burst]

Barytoni, What you have is called a T-top pickup. They are no where near an original PAF in quality of tone, in my opinion. Others here will disagree. The T-tops began in 1967. Tonefiend has rewound some which he says makes for a good pickup. Ed says that the PAFs don't count past 1961. I disagree. I have all versions of this pickup up to the T-tops and the post 61 PAFs and patent number pickups are about equal to their pre 1961 brothers. Anything south of a T-top is a good vintage for a humbucking pickup.

 

[Doc]

Stu:

Finally remembered to look at the SG tuners on the way out the door this morning...The say KLUSON DELUXE and appear to be nickel. ( I had to get my reading glasses out to see that! GRRR!)

Sorry it took an extra day to remember to look...I'm gettin older and CRS in settin' in REAL bad!

Doc:

wow

 

[Stu]

Thanks Doc, mine must be later ones then. It also has a chrome pat. no. bridge and an earliler 5 screw guard, so I'm not surprised the tuners are replacements.

Stuart

 

[Doc]

Don't be to quick...

Stuart:

Don't be too quick to assume that. My 65 has chrome 'buckers and I believe bridge but nickel tuners! Somebody more knowledgable than me might be able to enlighten here but it is my understanding Gibson was in transition during this era and combination nickel and chrome parts on a guitar were not unheard of.

Doc

Once again I gotta check when I get home.