Bigsby and the Firebird "THE TRUTH"

[rockabilly69]

Well besides all the normal setup (fret slots, saddles slots etc), I lubricated all string contact points on my Firebird with the Bigsby/Vibramate, and to tell you the truth, the thing still has nowhere near the tuning stability of the stoptail. And it's worse than the vintage trem on my Strat. And, so you know where I coming from, I wasn't dive bombing or doing any crazy stuff with it, just some gentle bends of chords. Before the mod the guitar held tuning rock solid. As I was gigging with it, I watched the tuner all night between songs, and I was constantly retuning whenever I used the Bigsby. It wasn't far out of tune, but it was definately out of tune enough to bug me. When I wasn't using the Bigsby, the guitar held tune very well. Additionally, the Bigsby changed the tone on the guitar, and I hear some extraneous noise, which funny enough I find musical.

So if you're planning to mod your Firebird V or Explorer, and you're a gigging musician. I would definately consider having a good inline tuner on stage with you, or a backup guitar. It seems alot of mods are done here for aesthetic reasons, but I did this mod because I didn't have a humbucker guitar with trem. I just wanted to let people know my experience before they shelled out the cash for the mod. And if you're a bedroom player, no big deal, especially if you aren't playing with anyone else. The installation is reversable so at least it doesn't harm the guitar. I'm definately up in the air on whether this will stay on my guitar.

Dan

 

[jeffc]

I hear you . I lost some stability also, when using, it but since I'm a basment player, Like you said, it's no big deal for me.


You think string gauge may have a role in this, that could help or make things worst ?


I string with .11


JF

 

[TM1]

Try using some Big Bends Nut Sauce!! Should fix your problems!

 

[zombiwoof]

I think it's most important when adding a bigsby to have your nut cut right, and also lubricate all parts constantly after that. From everything I've read about using Bigsby's, that is the main message.

Al

 

[rockabilly69]

TM1-

I'm using big bends sauce on every contact point (nut, saddles, both sides of the tension bar, both sides of the string retaining bar as recommended in their youtube video), and the nut is cut perfectly. The only thing I haven't addressed is the the Nashville bridge rocks back and forth a bit with the Bigsby use. I thought I would take the thumbwheels off my R7 (I'm going to swap those out with correct replacements from vintage checkout), and put them against the body on my Nashville studs. Maybe this will help with the bridge rocking. But for the very few times that I would use the Bigsby, I don't know if it's worth the trouble, especially the excessive time it takes during string changes, and the general tuning instability. I could use a Strat for those few songs, and get back to having a rock solid Firebird. I figure I'll work at it for a few weeks, and if this stuff doesn't iron it self out, it's back to non-Bigsby Firebird!!! Now I can see why there are so many Bigsby shadows on old Les Pauls It's function over aesthetics for me.


Jeff-

I'm using a normal Ernie Ball .010 light set, so yes maybe 11's would be better, but I've got 9.5s on my R7 so I would like to keep somewhat consisitant.

Dan

 

[DEI305]

rockabilly69,
I am using the same set up as you on a 93 LP. I added a Schaller roller Bridge. It works great, easy to set up, good tone from he roller saddles as well. The pic is from stew-mac

Here is my LP with the same set up. I also added a slightly taller Bigsby spring from All-Parts. I am using Curt Mangan 10's. No tuning problems or sticking.

Rick

 

[jeffc]

I also added a slightly taller Bigsby spring from All-Parts.

Rick

That is something I might do. Do you have any problems regarding the "fits in the case" with your Bigsy, with the taller spring ?

 

[DEI305]

Jeff,
The spring add's about a 1/4 of an inch. No problem fitting in the case or closing the case. Think about trying out a roller bridge.
Rick

 

[jeffc]

Jeff,
The spring add's about a 1/4 of an inch. No problem fitting in the case or closing the case. Think about trying out a roller bridge.
Rick

Is there any tonal change, when switching to a roller bridge ?



JF C

 

[zombiwoof]

Are your strings clearing the back of the bridge? If they are hitting the bridge body, that could cause problems. If so, even changing to a narrower ABR type bridge could help. There are a bunch of players using Bigsby's without major problems, so I'm sure there is a way to solve your issues.

Al

 

[rockabilly69]

Al,

Yes they are clearing just fine

Dan

 

[mad dog]

My guess is it's the bridge. I have a vibramate/B5 on a vaguely LP like guitar (Dearmond M-72), which has a narrow, TOM type bridge. I guess that's the ABR style. It's maybe a little less stable in tuning than before, but not much different. No need to turn on the inline tuner during rehearsals ... it's a great addition to this guitar.

 

[rockabilly69]

I'm thinking it's the bridge too.

 

[Art Werck]

this is an issue that's come up a few times over the years on this site. I have an FB VII w/ a Bigsby and vibrato. They are, at best, unreliable when it comes to tuning. I had a '67 Gretsch Tennessean w/ a Bigsby, loved the guitar but it would not stay in tune no matter what I did. Just a fact of life.

 

[Flogger]

I thought that I saw a thread here that showed a 50's Gibson with a factory Bigsby where the thumbwheels were slightly domed on top, which allowed the bridge to rock slightly, which helped keep the wound strings in better tune.

 

[J.D.]

On an ABR-1 guitar otherwise stock, they won't stay in tune perfectly no matter what you do. Reason being is the ABR-1 "rocks" on the thumbwheels while the individual saddles shift within the play of the ABR-1 saddle slots. The strings do not "slide" across the saddle slots. Everything never comes back perfectly to the exact location that you tuned at. Combine this with a non-locking nut and non-locking tuners, you have a perfect storm.

 

[zombiwoof]

I thought that I saw a thread here that showed a 50's Gibson with a factory Bigsby where the thumbwheels were slightly domed on top, which allowed the bridge to rock slightly, which helped keep the wound strings in better tune.

I saw that thread (and the pictures of the domed thumbwheels), the bottom of the ABR frame on those was also machined out where the domed tops of the thumbwheels contacted it. Seems like a good idea, don't know how well it worked or why they stopped making them.

Al

 

[magnido45]

I recently installed a Vibramate/B5 on my LP...the bigsby works well and stays in tune as long as you're strumming, picking notes or shimming a chord with the vibrato...the problems begin when you go to bend the Low-E, A, D, or G string...the string goes flat and stays like that until you wiggle the Bigsby once or twice, enabling the Bigsby to reset the string tension and it's back in tune. Lubing the nut and saddles don't help. Any one else notice this problem when they bend a string with a Bigsby equipped guitar?

 

[TM1]

My FB VII has a Maestro Vibrola. I use an old bridge from the `60's that is bevelled on the bottom and has bevelled/domed thumbscrews. They use to make these for guitars with vibratos as Gibson has their own machine shop in Kalamazoo. I also use Nylon VI saddles. Sonically it sounds a bit smoother with the nylon and has plenty of sustain. I also use the 2" stainless steel ABR-1 posts which added greatly to the tone of the guitar. I have zero tuning issues!! I would never use a roller bridge as it kills the string coupling aspect. You want to have the fewest amount of parts between the string and body so it transfers the string vibrations better.

 

[rockabilly69]

Since those domed thumbwheels aren't being made anymore, I guess I'll just have to try some nylon or graphtek saddles, and strengthen the post with extra wheels. Thanks everybody on the input and I'll keep everyone posted good or bad. But I definately think it's important to point out the trouble it takes to get this right, to help others who are considering modding their guitars with a Bigsby.