Are Gibson LP lovers snobs?

[Zhangliqun]

In regard to the MIM Fenders (especially the 50"s & 60's Classics) they may be more exceptable than an Epi LP because they are closer to the real deal. By this I mean the MIM Teles & Strats use Alder and Ash bodies, maple necks and maple or rosewood fretboards, ect making them more like a USA Fender. I even think a lot of them are cut here and sent to Mexico for paint and assembly. Epi Lp's are made of Alder/poplar/basswood or something like it with a thin veneer of maple on top not a true maple cap. This makes it a totally different guitar in my opinion (I think early Epi's may have had the right wood but I'm not sure).

It's true -- all the woodwork on the MIM's is in the Corona (CA) factory and then shipped a 150 miles or so across the border where they're assembled. I'm not sure if they are painted here or there, but either way, the MIM's are actually pretty bleepin' good. I have a 50's reissue MIM that is flat-out wonderful by any standard.

 

[Zhangliqun]

The main trouble starts when you get a post like this.....

I just bought a (insert brand name here) Les Paul and it's just the same as a Gibson, but only xx% of the cost. Gibson is all about hype....
:2cents

That's exactly it -- 99% of the time the trouble starts only when we get snobbed on in here first by just that kind of post. It's uninformed Epi snobbery, slamming the saloon doors open, swaggering in and insulting every cowpoke in the joint about his horse and his 6-shooter, challenging them all to a duel -- then crying and moaning when the cowpokes all open fire.

Simple mathematics: If you grab a tiger by the tail, you will have to deal with his teeth.

Even if you are a Gibson lover and don't care for Epi's at all, you still have to come in here with some humility and respect.

 

[moonpie]

I confess to being a Snob.

I left my Studio Lite out of this pic because it doesn't have binding.

I'm so ashamed.

This is my H-80 guarded by a couple of PreHistorics.

 

[phil47uk]

Right then you bloody snobs.......

I bought this Les Paul in Aghanistan last year while I was on vacation over there. (low taxes)

Huge long neck tenon. Brazilian maple board :wha . The last two frets being rosewood....P.A.F.S as good as anything you'll find on your U.S made rubbish.

Burst ... Yukk!.. Far too vulgar, so I settled for a natural ply finish. You wont find old wood like that hanging around any American lumber yards.


And guess what? ....I paid only a fraction of the cost that you would pay for one of your stupid Lifton cases and I got the amp and lead thrown in on the deal.

I hope I don't make too many waves with this post, but you lot are complete mugs if you don't mind me saying so.

I have it on good authority that Gibson guitars aren't really made in America anyway and haven't been since 1898.
They are assembled in a small village called Plodzt in Poland. Always have been and always will be, so it looks like you are all being conned.

Get real guys and get yourself a real mans guitar..... P.S. I do believe they also make them for women too.........Oh and off course the odd left handed one to order.

Yours ,
Petrovitch Dribblelotsky.

 

[phil47uk]

Bloody trouble makers. There's always one somewhere.......And he hi jacked my avatar too...........

Phil.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Interesting one that......Hey does anyone here know about the work force on Gibson's production line during the 1950's . Was there a lot of Mexican labour used in their factories ?

Phil.

In Kalamazoo, Michigan in 1955? Not likely. It's only been in the last 5 to 10 years that Mexican immigrants have expanded out of the border states.

But if the main Fender plant was in Southern CA back in those days, it's a strong possibility, except that in those days most were probably American citizens of Mexican descent or Mexicans with a green card instead of illegal aliens.

 

[Zhangliqun]

I don't buy guitars just because they have the bloody English flag drapped over it, so lets forget all this gung-ho patriotic crap when it come to musical instruments.
Phil :duke

I don't think it has anything to do with "patriotism". Probably half or more of us LP nuts are equally "snobby" about their decidedly non-American Marshalls, giddy about French wine, German cars and Cuban cigars, the list goes on.

We just want what's good. I think it's safe to say I speak for nearly everyone here that if Gibson was a British or Russian or Zimbabwean company from the get-go, we'd still be Gibson nuts. The only disadvantage would be all the import duties, taxes, tariffs, etc., that you Brits complain about hiking the price of Gibsons over there.

 

[phil47uk]

In Kalamazoo, Michigan in 1955? Not likely. It's only been in the last 5 to 10 years that Mexican immigrants have expanded out of the border states.

But if the main Fender plant was in Southern CA back in those days, it's a strong possibility, except that in those days most were probably American citizens of Mexican descent or Mexicans with a green card instead of illegal aliens.

Hi Zhangliqun.
The reason I asked that was that you often see lots of old Fender necks etc signed by someone with a Spanish sounding name. Not knowing much about the history of how your imigration has spread I'd thought I'd ask a native U.S citizen.
SteveDenver came up with a good point though...There were a lot of Nordic and German settlers round the North. Could many of them have been involved.
Luthiers....Sanders etc?
I'm not saying that because they were imigrants that the work was any shoddier than a local . Far from it.
Most of the tailoring trade over here after the war was Jewish...The best bloody tailors that England have ever had.

Phil.

 

[bluespckr]

Hey, Phil47UK -- can I get me one o' dem in a three-tone 'burst? Maybe with a '50 kneck? And a hard case, to boot???

 

[Chief O'Brien]

I love Gibson LPs for a lot of reasons: tone, looks, vibe, history, etc. But that doesn't mean I don't respect somebody who plays an Epiphone Les Paul and gets great sounds out of it. I think that's great. I was willing to pay more for the Gibson name (and presumably a better built guitar), but I have no issue with someone buying an Epiphone. I guess what I'm saying is, loving and wanting a Gibson Les Paul does not mean that you are a snob who disses Epiphones and Epiphone players. I saw a guy playing an Epiphone Les Paul and it sounded fantastic and gave me inspiration about sounds I could get out of my Gibson Les Paul. Also, if I had extra cash lying around, I would love to buy one of those John Lennon Epiphone reissues. That's not an LP I know, but it still is a really cool guitar. And I think that speaks to why people want a certain name. I want the Epiphone because that's what John Lennon played (after he ditched the Rickenbacker), and I want a Gibson LP because a lot of my other heroes played one of those (and yes, because it also gets the sounds I want).

 

[Chief O'Brien]

Another factor seems to be that Fender players seem to tend to be more tone freaks than LP players and spend more time figuring out ways to get sounds they are after. For that reason, they are more into the sound of the guitar than its appearance or brand. LP players seem to be happy with the basic Les Paul sounds and don't fidget as much with different variables. Maybe that's because it's easier to get good tone out of an LP? I don't know.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Hi Zhangliqun.
The reason I asked that was that you often see lots of old Fender necks etc signed by someone with a Spanish sounding name. Not knowing much about the history of how your imigration has spread I'd thought I'd ask a native U.S citizen.

There have been folks in Southern California with Spanish names since the Spanish came here 450 years or so ago. A lot of this area was a part of Mexico at one time until the wars in the 1830's and 1840's, hence the Spanish names for most of our cities and towns -- San Francisco = St. Francis; (Pueblo de) Los Angeles = City of The Angels. Apparently San is for a male saint and Santa is for females -- San Bernardino for good ol' Bernie, and Santa Monica and Santa Barbara for the Monica and Barb, you get the idea.

But I digress...so, anyway, Spanish names on old Fender necks makes sense.

SteveDenver came up with a good point though...There were a lot of Nordic and German settlers round the North. Could many of them have been involved.
Luthiers....Sanders etc?[\QUOTE]

He's right, the upper-upper Midwest (Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc.) was settled by lots and lots of Germans and Scandinavians. It's quite possible that there were Northern European immigrants right off the boat working for Orville back in the day, and it's more than likely that their 2nd/3rd/4th/etc generation descendants worked there later.

There might have been a few Poles too, though they tended to concentrate in and around Chicago.

I'm not saying that because they were imigrants that the work was any shoddier than a local . Far from it.
Most of the tailoring trade over here after the war was Jewish...The best bloody tailors that England have ever had.

Phil.

Immigrants of all colors and stripes were different back then -- they did not have a generally resentful attitude toward their new country and refuse to learn English and otherwise assimilate, as their self-appointed American guardians encourage them to do now. Back then they were humble and very appreciative of being in the land of opportunity and it showed in their work, even though they were often abused and exploited.

But even with this PC nonsense, there are plenty of immigrants from all over the world who are throwbacks to that era, who really want to show up and work their butts off, and again, it shows in their work.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Another factor seems to be that Fender players seem to tend to be more tone freaks than LP players and spend more time figuring out ways to get sounds they are after. For that reason, they are more into the sound of the guitar than its appearance or brand. LP players seem to be happy with the basic Les Paul sounds and don't fidget as much with different variables. Maybe that's because it's easier to get good tone out of an LP? I don't know.

I can see you're new here but spend some more time here and you'll see we're every bit as goofy on tinkering with our LP's as any Fenderhead. Check out the Tone Zone page...

 

[davey]

Where did the phrase "tinkerfuck" come from? :lol

 

[dtw576]

I can see you're new here but spend some more time here and you'll see we're every bit as goofy on tinkering with our LP's as any Fenderhead. Check out the Tone Zone page...

We are crazy as hell about modding our LP's and other Gibsons to get the ultimate tone. After we are convinced our wood is its best, we go after the pickups, nut, studs, post, bridge, tuners, frets, strings, etc. Some have refinished their LP's for looks and tone. LP owners are about as anal as it gets but we have lots of fun doing it.

 

[GuitarDean]

"Where did the phrase "tinkerfuck" come from?"


Only a few hundred select people know for sure...

Tinker

 

[phil47uk]

Hey, Phil47UK -- can I get me one o' dem in a three-tone 'burst? Maybe with a '50 kneck? And a hard case, to boot???

Your order is on the assembly line as we speak bluespckr.......That'll be a total of $2.50 + $90 shipping. :spin


Zhangliqun.
Interesting history lesson there.
I suppose when it comes down to it many craftsmen from various far flung outposts of Europe have settled in both here and the U.S.A over the decades.
My family for instance are all from Switzerland on my Mothers side and from Kaunus in Lithuania on my Fathers.
I have only recently discovered we have a lot of family that moved over to the States during the early part of this century.
Small world eh?

Phil.

 

[davey]

Why did I pick an R0? Because my particular guitar just happened to be the best Les Paul for me out of many I have played.

Actually, didn't you go out looking for an R0 when there was nothing wrong with your Classic? Wasn't the first time you laid your hands on it after you'd traded in your Classic and it had been delivered to your house?

 

[MichaelT]

This is just an observation, but I've noticed that there's even a pecking order (so to speak), or a "snobbery" within the Gibson owners camp itself. The guys that own "Bursts" and 52-60s models have their elevation over the entire gang. Then the 68-70 guys, then the "Historic Reissue" guys, then the Custom Shop people... all over the production models... with Norlins being a bottom feeder. I want to reiterate again that it is all about the wood and the hands as so many here have said. I'm am totally sure that there were terrible 56s made. And I know there were some fantastic Norlins made as I own 2 that I consider the greatest guitars I've ever owned. But the thing is they are guitars to be proud of. I cannot look down at a Norlin, simply because it is a Norlin without playing it 1st and getting the feeling that it has. It's Manatu so to speak. Sure I'd love to own a 57, but I wouldn't buy it simply because it was a 57. If it didn't speak to me... it's outta here.

I don't think anyone here is discounting the value of any other brand of guitar as being good instruments. I own many other brands... Fender, Jackson, Charvel, Ibanez etc... And they are fine instruments. But my Les Pauls are special to me, and I'm proud to own and play them. I am wanting a PRS custom 24 these days. But it would never replace my LPs. There is a specialness that comes from Gibson that has to do with (as I said before) history and craftsmanship. The guy that buys an Epi is (inside) wishing that he had a Gibson, and is telling himself that it is one.

I don't know where I'm really going with this, other than to say that we are proud of what we have, and believe that the Gibson Les Paul is the best sounding, and finest crafted guitar on the market. Weather it's the Holy Grail never-been-played 52 GT found under someones bed or a Norlin with all the right chemestry to make it "acceptable." It's a Gibson and it's the best...

(If that makes sense).

 

[grinder965]

Sheet Michael....that makes a ton of sense....whatever floats someones boat....sometin special though bout most single cut LP's made by Gibson in the good ole USA. I've heard lots of very versatile plain old studios kick the shit out of most electrics out there! Something about the overall design, build, pup placement and wood I believe.