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Antiquity's or Holmes?

howardslespaul

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Jul 16, 2001
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I have a '99 R9 plaintop. The tone I'm lookin' for (out of the guitar) is a Duane/Dickey thing. It seems like maybe a lower output pup's with nice highs & not alot of mid-range bark. So I'm lookin' to change the pots, the caps, & the pup's. Right now with my tone knobs full tilt I'm pretty flat. Any suggestions?
I'll need to know where to purchase also..........thanks guys!
 
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howardslespaul

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Has this been covered so many times that by even asking, fury begins to
arise?..............anybody?
 

Ed Rafalko

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The Holmes pickups are really somewhat harsh, but they're my preference- even though I don't use them in anything any more. I'm currently using a Seth Lover in teh neck, which is basically an Antiquity with a non-aged magnet. I like it fine.
 

omarxx

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Jul 16, 2001
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Tom Holmes pickups

I have a pair of Holmes in my R9 and I really like them. I liked the '57 Classics but wanted to see if I could get any closer to my idea of the original PAF tone and I think I did. I like these much better than the '57 Classics. I've never tried Antiquities.
 

Big Al

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did you keep the Holmes or go back to the 57s ???
Really, Stumpy??? That was 20 yrs ago. I haven't seen any of these guys around in years.

If you want an opinion, I own both, it's preference. The Holmes are stronger and more focused than the Antiqities. Beefy and bold version of paf, very nice. The Antiquities have that hollow, woody thing and a clarity that is expressive and complex. I always come back to them and are what I prefer. I have several sets of double creams from the latter 90's that I've had that just sound right too me. I like my Holmes alot too. They push a tube amp in just the right way, you know. I like them with Marshalls.
 

peeninety

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Mar 31, 2002
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My Number One is an R4 with my preferred P90s, but I've got an R8 with Antiquities and a '61 335 with Tom Homes that I also dearly love.
 

Señor Verde

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Jan 13, 2005
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As has been stated in other threads, I think it depends on the guitar. My R7 and R8 sound very different and I have different brands of pickups in them to get them in a similar but different ballpark, sound-wise. I'd start with something on the less expensive end and if you like them, great. If you don't like them you'll have a reference point for looking at something that will get you where you want to be.
 

ultra

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Dec 7, 2001
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Holmes are my favourite hum buckers. I put Holmes H450/H455 in my 1999 R9 but didn't like them in that guitar and finally settled on Peter Florance Voodoo 59s.

I have Holmes in my other humbucker guitars. Some Antiquities as well. There are some pickups that are just not right for some guitars, no matter how you try to justify it
 

Sol

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There's a particular open-air concert as Dicky Betts opens with the intro chords to Jessica on the neck pup of his Goldtop.
It has the same clarity as my low output neck PAF type humbucker at 7.4K ohms.
I don't remember him using the bridge, so I can't comment but his neck PAF is a lower output type if this is of help to you.
 

Dr. Green

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Really, Stumpy??? That was 20 yrs ago. I haven't seen any of these guys around in years.

If you want an opinion, I own both, it's preference. The Holmes are stronger and more focused than the Antiqities. Beefy and bold version of paf, very nice. The Antiquities have that hollow, woody thing and a clarity that is expressive and complex. I always come back to them and are what I prefer. I have several sets of double creams from the latter 90's that I've had that just sound right too me. I like my Holmes alot too. They push a tube amp in just the right way, you know. I like them with Marshalls.

I resurrected an ancient thread from the dead on purpose - thought it would give an interesting perspective on how even back 2 decades ago everyone including yourself was swapping pups

begs the question how much closer we are to the sound of a PAF now ....

"It was 20 years ago today
Sergeant Pepper taught the band to play
They've been going in and out of style
But they're guaranteed to raise a smile
So may I introduce to you
The act you've know for all these years
Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band ............"


 

goldtop0

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The PAF sound imo is individual to the pups in each '50s LP, 335 etc and there are a lot of historics out there that hit the nail on the head. It doesn't come down to it just being a '50s/60s thing any more, that may have been the case back in the '80s but not now with so much aftermarket product available and very good CS instruments. Same with P90s.
The mysticism around vintage guitars is sometimes justified as they are old and historical(however not all of them are great), but as to the sound/tone not being replicated.......... I think we're past that now.
 

Sol

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I have a '99 R9 plaintop. The tone I'm lookin' for (out of the guitar) is a Duane/Dickey thing. It seems like maybe a lower output pup's with nice highs & not alot of mid-range bark. So I'm lookin' to change the pots, the caps, & the pup's. Right now with my tone knobs full tilt I'm pretty flat. Any suggestions?
I'll need to know where to purchase also..........thanks guys!
I mentioned in my previous post that Dicky Betts in a live intro to Jessica had perfect clarity from that neck position PAF, his Les Paul had the clarity of a Tele or P90 neck pickup. Epic!

While I don't know Holmes I'm really familiar with Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers and Antiquity PAFs partly thanks to Big Als advice some 15 yrs ago.. Thanks Al.

I've heard that the PAFs from Duane's Goldtop were somewhat typical of the early 57 PAFs and it seems reasonable that Dicky Betts pickups may lie in the same approximate range (my assumption) this would likely place them within the 7.0 K to 8.0 kohm range.

The Seth Lover neck is 7.4 Kohms at 8.14 khz and the Antiquity neck is approx 7.7 Kohms at 6.65 Khz.

7.4K to 7.7k, is minimal,.but check out the resonant peak difference... Pretty cool eh? .. These two PAFs are so complimentary. The Lover in the neck and the Antiquity in the bridge. What do you guys think ?
 
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bern1

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Nov 23, 2004
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I think my ears are too shot to tell much, but I keep trying. I put a set of Antiquities in my 07 Les Paul Faded. I liked the stock buckers ok but they were just a little hot. The Antiquities sound more like a typical PAF to me. Whatever that is, the originals were all over the place too in terms of character.

But no matter what, this guitar will never sound like a real sunburst. You also have to remember that Allman and Betts played with pretty much standard stock amplification. Today we have so many more tools to influence the sound, in addition to the myriad of pickup choices. Amplification choices will let you dial in whatever you want if the pickups are at least in the zone. The Brothers got that tone by turning the volume up on loud amps. There’s not many options for that for most of us these days.
 

bern1

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To the OP: I would also play around with different pickup heights and polepiece heights. These things can make a world of difference In the sound of your guitar.
 

Sol

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I would still draw the OP to the contrasting resonant peak's of these two Duncan neck pickups.
They indicate the clarity difference between the two and their potential as a complimentary pairing.
 

Dr. Green

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I find it extraordinarily interesting that a post which was started 2 decades ago is so relevant to the discussion of Gibson guitars today

Big Al : any comment or criticism ?
 

brandtkronholm

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I find it extraordinarily interesting that a post which was started 2 decades ago is so relevant to the discussion of Gibson guitars today

Big Al : any comment or criticism ?
Swapping pickups to get the "good sound" (whatever that means) has been relevant to the discussion of Gibson guitars today and also well over two decades before the original 2001 post.
Imagine: It's the early/mid '70s and you just got a 'Burst - the first thing you talk about is getting a pair of DiMarzio Super Distortions 'cause the originals were weak.
It's been a discussion for half a century and onward. It's been a good and fun discussion, but tone is in the ear of the beholder. Like Big Al says: It's preference. Also, Bern1 makes a salient point with the abundance of amplification options we have today - not to mention the wealth of options for after-market pickups and the many variations on the classic lineup of Gibson guitars.
Let the discussion continue and may the consensus ever remain a moving target!
(For what it's worth, all my Gibsons have 60s/50s PAFs: 1959 ES345 = original PAFs; 1995 R9 = neck '61/2 PAF from a SG, bridge = double white form a '59 ES335.)
 

Wilko

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you want a cleanerlower output neck sound? use your volume pot. Just takes a small twist. Not much at all.

(I prefer the Ant's too)
 

Bluespower

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Feb 26, 2003
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I have an '03 R9 at 8.2 pounds and have tried ...
Duncans, Bare knuckles, Holmes, Rolph Pretenders (which I still have), a couple of pre t tops
ended up sticking with the Antiquities.
But, yes, depends on your individual guitar, your amp and audio preferences.
Can't go wrong with Antiquities
 
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