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58 Murphy Lab @ Sweetwater, top wound at both ends

MrNubs

Active member
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
128
WTF

spoke with Sweetwater and was told this is straight from the Murphy Lab and not a sell/return item and NOT a string change by one of their techs

strings at turners are what i call Top Wound, one under one over instead of the standard one over one under winding. That really changes the angle of the string coming off the nut,

and we have a top wound tail piece,

all straight from the Murphy Lab boys

SO,

i have seen top wound tuners on some real 59's but never coming from the custom/Murphy shop

chek it out

 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
4,027
Not sure what liberties the Murphy Lab allows. Anything's possible since each is essentially a one-off within parameters.... Ask @matkoehler

I did a close-up on the bridge though, and the high-E is out of the saddle in the photo, so something did happen 'out-of-spec' ... perhaps at the factory, during shipping/unboxing, or because of Sweetwater Inspection or set-up change...?

Anyone who purchases from Sweetwater can request a restring and dial-in a personal set-up, BTW! Depending on the guitar they MAY try to charge, but you can negotiate into an 'out-the-door price' with your rep -- I've had to send back a Martin that SW set-up not to my liking and SW fixed -- all shipping on their dime.

Hopefully the days of Gibson QC variance with bridge posts being bent, stop bar angles not allowing for appropriate bridge clearance because of weird set neck angles are well behind us now, and this was a 'maker's choice' versus a limitation of this guitar's particular [or peculiar] construction.
 

jrgtr42

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Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
2,254
Honestly how the strings are wound doesn't bother me at all - since I change them and adjust to my taste on my own when I get the guitar. I've been doing my own setups for so long I don't even think about it; and |I don't go by measurements, it's more by feel. Some guitars of mine have higher action etc than others, but they feel right to me.
 

Angeldeville

Active member
Joined
Apr 17, 2021
Messages
97
The other one in stock has a really shitty lock wind at the tunas and the tailpiece decked like a dumbarse would do..

do y’all realize that guitars are not made by guitarists, they are made by woodworkers.

I knew a lady that worked at 7enders custom shop and she couldn’t play the radio.
 

El Gringo

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Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,351
Not sure what liberties the Murphy Lab allows. Anything's possible since each is essentially a one-off within parameters.... Ask @matkoehler

I did a close-up on the bridge though, and the high-E is out of the saddle in the photo, so something did happen 'out-of-spec' ... perhaps at the factory, during shipping/unboxing, or because of Sweetwater Inspection or set-up change...?

Anyone who purchases from Sweetwater can request a restring and dial-in a personal set-up, BTW! Depending on the guitar they MAY try to charge, but you can negotiate into an 'out-the-door price' with your rep -- I've had to send back a Martin that SW set-up not to my liking and SW fixed -- all shipping on their dime.

Hopefully the days of Gibson QC variance with bridge posts being bent, stop bar angles not allowing for appropriate bridge clearance because of weird set neck angles are well behind us now, and this was a 'maker's choice' versus a limitation of this guitar's particular [or peculiar] construction.
Sweetwater is a good place and if you have a contact/sales rep that is the way to go . That high E string sure is weird .
 

Tollywood

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Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
394
Forgive my ignorance but if I don’t ask, I’ll never learn.

I see how the strings go over the tailpiece on that first Sweetwater guitar so I get that reference, although I have never done it that way. How does going over the tailpiece change the way a guitar plays or feels?

I don’t understand what Mr Nubs means by top wound, and I don’t understand the over and under / under and over descriptions.

Can someone please explain that to me?
 

charliechitlins

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Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
557
What are you even talking about?
These guitars are pre-beat-to-shit from the factory and MADE to look like somebody didn't fastidiously care for their guitar.
They reflect being owned by a normal Joe who doesn't obsess about how many windings are on the post or what the thumbwheels are made of.
The "person" who "owned" this guitar chose to top-wrap the tailpiece and wind the strings up from the bottom, to reduce break angle at the nut and possibly improve tuning and feel.
If you're going to pay $7k for a guitar that looks like somebody adjusted the tailpiece with a quarter without slacking the strings and hit it with a wad of keys, isn't complaining about how it's strung up a little absurd?
It's like buying a used car and complaining that it doesn't have your preference of mirror adjustment and tire pressure.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,351
If the case don't smell like an ashtray converted to a litterbox Mumphry didn't do his job...
Very Good Analogy (from your description this is a good example of why I don't go for the relic/aged treatment )
 

renderit

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Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,577
I am aged, but I treat my instruments with care.

I actually have 2 or 3 aged (non-vintage) fiddles.

But I bought them for sound reasons.
 

corpse

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Jun 9, 2007
Messages
4,583
The "person" who "owned" this guitar chose to top-wrap the tailpiece and wind the strings up from the bottom, to reduce break angle at the nut and possibly improve tuning and feel.
I never noticed that until you pointed that out CC.
How the eff does one wind the strings from the bottom? i had no idea that was even a thing?
Just when I feel like i am gettign my arms around this stuff I learn soemthing new.
Plz splain how you do that?
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,351
I am aged, but I treat my instruments with care.

I actually have 2 or 3 aged (non-vintage) fiddles.

But I bought them for sound reasons.
We both know that once upon a time instruments came brand new and all nice from the factory . That's exactly how we or should I say I got used to them . Then comes along the new phenomena of aging (thank you not Keith Richards ) Which I get and understand as it is a price point and business is in the business of fulfilling customers and there needs(and making $ ) and Bless them as that's what makes the world go round and round , it's just not my cup of tea . Also aged instruments cost more , totally ludicrous for me to pay more to have someone ding and bash and scratch something that costs me a lot $ that is really important to me .
 

charliechitlins

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Nov 16, 2021
Messages
557
I never noticed that until you pointed that out CC.
How the eff does one wind the strings from the bottom? i had no idea that was even a thing?
Just when I feel like i am gettign my arms around this stuff I learn soemthing new.
Plz splain how you do that?
String Theory...
or
Some stuff I've figured out setting up guitars since the mid/late 1840s.

First...if strings stretch when they break in, it's virtually negligible.
I know...shocking.
Choose a "broken in/stretched" string and slack it off until it's floppy enough to fall off the post.
Now tune it back to pitch.
It will take a few stretch-and-retunes to hold tune again.
This is because what we call stretching is mostly the settling-in of windings on the post.
You can SEE this happen when you tune a slack string to pitch.
And more windings means more break-in cycles (stretch and retune).
It's best FOR STABLE TUNING to use minimal wraps.
I stick to 2 in many situations (I'll get to the exceptions).
I do the first wrap above the hole and the 2nd below.
I feel like this squeezes/locks the string where it comes in/out of the hole for faster break-in and stable tuning.
Exceptions:
There are people who feel that top wrapping (reducing break angle at the bridge) improves tension/feel.
This can additionally be accomplished at the headstock by wrapping the string from the hole toward the top of the post to reduce break angle.
You can't do this with split shaft tuners.
I cut nuts ( for myself and others) and never have a problem with tuning stability, but I suppose if I couldn't get a guitar with an angled headstock to stay in tune, I would try wrapping the string up to reduce break angle and the possibility of binding at the nut.
One could even leave enough slack to wrap the string right to the top of the post.
Another exception is with Fenders.
For those who want to reduce break angle at the nut (for whatever reason), I've learned to eyeball leaving just enough slack on a new string so it will wind right to the bottom of the post.
This negates the need for string trees and some feel that the decreased break angle (and added friction at the string tree) improves feel and tuning stability.
Some are bothered by sympathetic vibrations from the long bit of string between the nut and the B and E tuners. Same on the other end with trapeze tailpieces, Bigsbys, etc.
Those people aren't playing loud enough ;)
I hope this helps.
 

brandtkronholm

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Dec 3, 2006
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2,445
And more windings means more break-in cycles (stretch and retune).
It's best FOR STABLE TUNING to use minimal wraps.

I stick to 2 in many situations (I'll get to the exceptions).
I do the first wrap above the hole and the 2nd below.
I feel like this squeezes/locks the string where it comes in/out of the hole for faster break-in and stable tuning.
Very interesting!

This is how I do it, but I usually put the second and third below.

Maybe I'll try one fewer wrap below next time I change my strings. This is interesting stuff.
 

charliechitlins

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557
Very interesting!

This is how I do it, but I usually put the second and third below.

Maybe I'll try one fewer wrap below next time I change my strings. This is interesting stuff.
I would still consider 3 wraps minimal.
I have seen just about every string installing abomination possible, including the entire unused part of the string wrapped on the post.
This is quite a wad on the low E!
BB King was reputed to do this.
When questioned, he supposedly said, "I PAID for the whole string..."
 

charliechitlins

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Nov 16, 2021
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557
you forgot ... boil the strings first! 🙃
Bass players used to commonly boil their strings to freshen them up.
A lot of skin gets in those windings.
I used to soak my strings in a coffee tin with naphtha before installing them.
At the time, I was convinced it made them last longer.
Maybe it did, but it's stinky and I lost patience for the maneuver.
 

jb_abides

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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
4,027
EVH, who purportedly got it from Clapton, boiled and stretched new ones.

Then there's Pastorius who would eat chicken, then get his grease on...

So many techniques! So little time!
 
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