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1955 special to '59 conversion

philb

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2002
Messages
259
I owned a guitar that Brian Monty had renecked , and it was done beautifully. It felt and played great , so that gave me the confidence and trust to have him do the conversion . And after a few months I had the guitar back, I wasn't waiting on photos.
Some people are probably not that adept w/ a camera and computer, I know I'm not. I did talk to him on the phone several times , and always had pleasant and informative conversations with him . I am very pleased with the work he did for me , and would gladly do it again .
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
A good luthier keeps you posted every step of the way

A good luthier does excellent work, hopefully on scedule. Anything else is extra, as the work is the most important thing.
If you want a photo log of the work, expect to ask ahead of time, and be prepared for any delays it might cause. :)
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Flick, who set you up as spokesman to talk for all good Luthiers? When having any major guitar rework done, the job should be handled by people with a reputation for this work, not a camera! I can see your point when your trying to learn as much as you can from everyone else as fast as you can.

Scott, a question for you.

I have always considered a luthier as a builder, not a repairman, although it is obviously possible to be both.
Do you consider a man who only repairs and restores to be a luthier?
:hmm
 

MapleFlame

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,029
I owned a guitar that Brian Monty had renecked , and it was done beautifully. It felt and played great , so that gave me the confidence and trust to have him do the conversion . And after a few months I had the guitar back, I wasn't waiting on photos.
Some people are probably not that adept w/ a camera and computer, I know I'm not. I did talk to him on the phone several times , and always had pleasant and informative conversations with him . I am very pleased with the work he did for me , and would gladly do it again .

What century are we in, I think it's about time to get up with the future.:ganz
 

FLICKOFLASH

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
3,177
I'm glad that you really know your repairman well, but I have heard stories like fender (old wood) bodies being swapped out for new wood doing refinishes & the owners being unexpecting & of a repairman in DC that straightens bowed necks by putting the neck between 2 chairs & standing on it , but i still would expect pix of a restoration or conversion of a vintage instrument if i was unable to visit the shop , or would you rather send your vintage instrument off for 6 months to a year with little or no communication.
? when you do work how do you know you without pix sure you have the finish the right color or fade ,dull ,or shiney to your customers satifaction or desires or do they get what you deliver.
Plus I have learned you can not always trust popular views on here cause sometimes the masses jump on the wagon of what the Jones are doing & saying & it is not always correct ,therefore as the old saying goes "a picture is worth a 1000 words" judge for yourself
 

RickN

New member
Joined
Feb 12, 2002
Messages
7,143
flickoflash -

You seem to live in a fantasy land and are doing so with some pretty unrealistic expectations. :lol

Would I send my guitar off for a six-months or more? Sure thing. Have done more than once and will again soon. Would I do it without communication? Absolutely not. But you seem to have somehow pigeon-holed "communication" as "photographs". There's also this thing called "telephone" - works great! And if you haven't done enough home-work and gotten enough referrals to have chosen the luthier without the need for daily baby-sitting in the form of photographs, then that's your fault. I prefer the luthiers I choose for my work to spend their time working on my instrument, not on their camera skills.

That you somehow think that a luthier somehow owes you pictures is just flabergasting. Do you live on Fantasy Island? If the luthier happens to send you pictures, you should consider yourself lucky. But to think that a luthier that doesn't take pictures is deficient in some way, or to dis people who have done their homework and choose their luthier wisely-enough to not need the kind of pathetic hand-holding you seem to need is just myopic.

If you absolutely must have pictures of every little step of the process on your guitar, then you're going narrow-down your list of candidates, or considerably lengthen the duration of your project... and even though they may not say it, the luthier would be smart to factor in the cost of the extra time spent taking photos, downloading to the computer, drafting emails and attaching the pictures... all when he/she could and should be having hand tools in-hand and getting your project finished.

You seem to have appointed yourself the forum luthier critic (I don't recall the election), but don't expect anyone with much of a grip on the reality of this work to jump on your bandwagon.
 

George

All Access/Backstage Pass
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
1,229
I don't have a dog in this fight, but some years ago Dan E. restored a '62 Les Paul Custom for me. He not only recorded the work, he had a running narrative here on this very public forum.
It is not only good from a legal point of view, it minimizes the chance for a misunderstanding and is good PR.
 

MapleFlame

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,029
I don't have a dog in this fight, but some years ago Dan E. restored a '62 Les Paul Custom for me. He not only recorded the work, he had a running narrative here on this very public forum.
It is not only good from a legal point of view, it minimizes the chance for a misunderstanding and is good PR.

Couldn't have said it better. One of the things America has lost touch with, is customer service. As I say "Lost in Translation" can be meant in many different ways.
 

soldano16

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2001
Messages
3,043
What century are we in, I think it's about time to get up with the future

You don't know the guy, not your call. He has a stellar reputation. He is an artist. Live and let live. Everyone in Quebec knows of Monty's work and a lot of international folks will vouch for his guitars.

I'd sell my 56 GT before I'd sell my Monty replica.
 

MapleFlame

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,029
You don't know the guy, not your call. He has a stellar reputation. He is an artist. Live and let live. Everyone in Quebec knows of Monty's work and a lot of international folks will vouch for his guitars.

I'd sell my 56 GT before I'd sell my Monty replica.

I bet with all the pictures we have seen of the "Special's" conversion that people are knocking the door down. I don't care if he is the best luthier- guitar guy in the world, if I have only seen three pictures of one of those Specials, he aint gettin my Biz. It has nothing to do how good he is or how he is received, it's just the right thing to do when working on a guitar for that kind of dough. Period.
I have had guitars built in Russia, and of course Dave Johnson has worked on 3 and one on the way, and after I work sometimes 14 hours a day it's the highlight of my day for my music interest. You tell me if you wouldn't rather have all the pictures from start to finish from any project. I asked would you rather, not to comment on this subject. It's a no brainer.
Remember that Flicko and myself did not say that any Luthier was bad or not good at what they do, just saying that pictures of the process only takes 5 mins to take upload and send, if the guitar guys can't do it, have someone in the shop do it. I come home from work and check my emails and I have another hour or so of work, does that mean I shouldn't write up a diet or workout program because it take time away from doing my daily work. Non- sense. It's part of the job and should be for the sake of the customer.
 

Chef Greg

Active member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
6,611
Philb is a busy guy & an artist... I'd bet the cyberworld is fairly low on his priority list. In fact, I oughta go to his neck of the woods and check out his art in person (if Gentry would let me crash at his place for a few days...) :salude

... I'd also bet Fip could give a rat's ass what we think of his guitar, he's happy and that's what matters.... thanks for sharing, Fip!
 

Brownie

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Messages
1,886
I don't have a dog in this fight, but some years ago Dan E. restored a '62 Les Paul Custom for me. He not only recorded the work, he had a running narrative here on this very public forum.
It is not only good from a legal point of view, it minimizes the chance for a misunderstanding and is good PR.

+1

Some might call that hand-holding. I call it excellent service. It's no accident that Dan's reputation is what it is. In this day and age...if I were in the biz and I didn't have photo/computer skills, I would get up to speed real fast. Personally, if I'm a customer, I dont need a daily update on my guitar's progress, but a couple of good pics and a concise narrative emailed once a week would be fine. Doesn't take much time to do that. Documentation of this sort is beneficial in a number of ways for both the customer and the person doing the work.

For the more anal, paranoid types, maybe luthiers could set up webcams on a passord-protected website. Give a customer a password and they can log on and watch their guitar's frets being leveled. Whoopie!!! Just imagine....

Customer: "Yeah...uh...I was watching you on the webcam...that burst you shot on my geetar looks a little too dark so I thought I'd call and ask if you could re-shoot it."

Luthier: "Why certainly...I'll reshoot it right now!"

Oh yeah:rolleyes:
 

FLICKOFLASH

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
3,177
flickoflash -

You seem to live in a fantasy land and are doing so with some pretty unrealistic expectations. :lol

Would I send my guitar off for a six-months or more? Sure thing. Have done more than once and will again soon. Would I do it without communication? Absolutely not. But you seem to have somehow pigeon-holed "communication" as "photographs". There's also this thing called "telephone" - works great! And if you haven't done enough home-work and gotten enough referrals to have chosen the luthier without the need for daily baby-sitting in the form of photographs, then that's your fault. I prefer the luthiers I choose for my work to spend their time working on my instrument, not on their camera skills.

That you somehow think that a luthier somehow owes you pictures is just flabergasting. Do you live on Fantasy Island? If the luthier happens to send you pictures, you should consider yourself lucky. But to think that a luthier that doesn't take pictures is deficient in some way, or to dis people who have done their homework and choose their luthier wisely-enough to not need the kind of pathetic hand-holding you seem to need is just myopic.

If you absolutely must have pictures of every little step of the process on your guitar, then you're going narrow-down your list of candidates, or considerably lengthen the duration of your project... and even though they may not say it, the luthier would be smart to factor in the cost of the extra time spent taking photos, downloading to the computer, drafting emails and attaching the pictures... all when he/she could and should be having hand tools in-hand and getting your project finished.

You seem to have appointed yourself the forum luthier critic (I don't recall the election), but don't expect anyone with much of a grip on the reality of this work to jump on your bandwagon.
Originally Posted by FLICKOFLASH
A good luthier keeps you posted every step of the way



like how posted turns into photo log ... phone calls is what eats up shop time.. a photo to email takes 1 min & can be done after hours

you never know my fantasy might be your reality
I have studied & been envolved in guitar design , construction , repair,& restoration for about 30 years ,It's my passion as much as yours is playing guitar, I have studied enough to know about many builders tell tale signs , tricks of the trade ,their pros & cons just as TW59 can tell us about real burst & things he has come in contact with thru the years. One thing I can tell you I do not look thru rose tinted glasses & if I posted some of the realities here there will be some pissed off people :headbange
 

Rev.WillieVK

Active member
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Messages
9,268
Apparently some of yuse gize think that your guitar is the only project a luthier has to work on, and that there will be daily/weekly work done on it and much to tell.

Most luthiers I know are working on a *minimum* of 5 to 10 guitar projects at the same time. Guess what? Your guitar didn't even get worked on this week! :hee :rofl

Not to mention 'trade secrets'...

You want a webcam? :hee :hee :hee Try searching for your own porn!
.
.
 
Last edited:

jaegerguitars

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
219
Scott, a question for you.

I have always considered a luthier as a builder, not a repairman, although it is obviously possible to be both.
Do you consider a man who only repairs and restores to be a luthier?
:hmm

dear Tom,

I for one think, if you´re a serious luthier, you should be both: a repairman and a builder. It´s simply the best combination! How can I repair a guitar without having detailed knowledge of it´s construction? Even if it´s an acoustic or electric guitar.... How can I retop a conversion Lester without being able to carve the top of an archtop acoustic guitar? I mean: this could be possible, but in the best case a luthier/repairman is able to build a guitar from the first step (chosing wood) to the last (string it and tune the box...).

The same with the materials to be used, from hide glue to the right lacquer: you get the best experience if you´re working on new and old instruments at the same time. I get so much inpiration from instruments built by other luthiers, which are in my shop. I had to live for 300 years to increase my knowledge about guitars for myself, if I couldn´t stick my hand through the soundhole of a dreadnought to feel how the bracing is done.
And, as we all know: the L.P. was designed to be a solid electric guitar on a high level of craftmanship; built to be similar to archtop jazzguitars. If you have this idea on your mind when you touch a vintage, i.e. an antique LesPaul, there is much more inspiration and feeling for that kind of instrument. One thing (building) lives and wins value from the other thing (repairing). If you have time and interest, I would be happy if you would visit my homepage (just german, but the images speak for themselves). Kind regards, Florian
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Thanks Jaeger. I checked out your site. I love your revolving logo. :2cool
Too bad it is so far from Koln.

I have known excellent builders who never learned repair, and did not have time for being a repairman. Their approach to repair is not quite the same as someone who is a skilled repairman. Of course, many are both luthier and repairman, and that can be a good thing.
I was more interested in the term luthier and if it truly applies to a repairman who is not a builder.
:salude
 

jaegerguitars

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
219
Thanks Jaeger. I checked out your site. I love your revolving logo. :2cool
Too bad it is so far from Koln.

I have known excellent builders who never learned repair, and did not have time for being a repairman. Their approach to repair is not quite the same as someone who is a skilled repairman. Of course, many are both luthier and repairman, and that can be a good thing.
I was more interested in the term luthier and if it truly applies to a repairman who is not a builder.
:salude

Thanks Tom.

I thought, 6 hours by car would be a choke for an american?!:salude
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Thanks Tom.

I thought, 6 hours by car would be a choke for an american?!:salude

At these gas prices it is a choke and a joke!! :hee
Plus, with my problems of navigating German roads it would take me much longer, and I cannot understand German enough to listen to the radio and avoid the traffic jams.
Really, so many plans and so little time. Plus, a borrowed car. Still, plans could change, and there should always be next year, and a visit to friends "down south".
:salude
 

jaegerguitars

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
219
At these gas prices it is a choke and a joke!! :hee
Plus, with my problems of navigating German roads it would take me much longer, and I cannot understand German enough to listen to the radio and avoid the traffic jams.
Really, so many plans and so little time. Plus, a borrowed car. Still, plans could change, and there should always be next year, and a visit to friends "down south".
:salude

Yes! It´s very beautyful here down south - with mountains (maple....) and bavarian beer, as I mentioned a few weeks ago!

Cheers!
 
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