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Valuable information to consider when evaluating the authenticity of a vintage burst

S. Weiger

S. Weiger

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

TM1 said:
BTW, the gold script “Les Paul Model” is Not a decal. It was Silkscreened on probably right before the guitar was “hardwarded”.
Maybe Kim from “Historic Makeovers” could tell us exactly when in the production process it was done, but was never a Decal back then. I think they did use a decal in the 70’s when Norlin was trying to speed up the whole process.. I do believe that the regular production guitars(Gibson USA) use decal...
Click to expand...

My bad, I forgot that it's not a decal but silk screened.
 
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S. Weiger

S. Weiger

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Zapper said:
Thanks DonnRowe, but can't see how the P is so obviously different..! Don't forget that NO silk screen logos will 101% exactly the same due to the nature of the process. If they were decals though it would be different as they SHOULD all be the same...
Click to expand...
This is actually wrong. I have examined many legit vintage 'Les Paul model' scripts, both from pics & the ones I have had in my hands (8+). All look the same re. the things I pointed out.
 
S. Weiger

S. Weiger

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Zapper said:
Tom, thanks for the new cavity pic. The 'chew' is the deepest I've seen yet... Must have been made on a Friday afternoon..! Interesting that the wiring loom emerges from a hole in the flat surface just above the neck p/u volume pot (ie like mine...). Hope that answers your question sweiger..!! :spabout Just goes to show how much individual guitars differed in the manufacturing process in those days.... :hank
Click to expand...

Your channel hole is NOT positioned like this, it is right in the middle of the flat vertical wall. Look at the comparison pic again.
 

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Zapper

Zapper

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

sweiger said:
Your channel hole is NOT like that. Yours is located right in the middle of the vertical cavity wall.
Look again.
Click to expand...

Jeeez... it's a few millimetres different..! These things were built by humans, not robots... The loom routs on your 'confirmed Burst', Tom's 1960, and my 'to be confirmed' 1960 are all in slightly different places. Here's a better view of mine. You can even make out the (very) shallow chew too... The guy that built mine was clearly very careful with his router!! :hee


92531836_2998077430213630_6008509679162884096_o.jpg
 
S. Weiger

S. Weiger

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Zapper said:
Jeeez... it's a few millimetres different..! These things were built by humans, not robots... The loom routs on your 'confirmed Burst', Tom's 1960, and my 'to be confirmed' 1960 are all in slightly different places. Here's a better view of mine. You can even make out the (very) shallow chew too... The guy that built mine was clearly very careful with his router!! :hee


92531836_2998077430213630_6008509679162884096_o.jpg
Click to expand...

I merely wanted to point out that your channel hole is the one that's in the middle, not towards the neck vol.pot, as you stated.
And as I said, I am only pretty sure about the placement consistency, not 100% sure.

Re. your new cavity shot: Still can't see any traces of chewmark, please point them out for me?
Yes the guy with that router that day was apparently very careful... If he was employed by Gibson, he definitely deserved a raise :)
 
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Jumping@Shadows

Jumping@Shadows

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

sweiger said:
I merely wanted to point out that your channel hole is the one that's in the middle, not towards the neck vol.pot, as you stated.
And as I said, I am only pretty sure about the placement consistency, not 100% sure.

Re. your new cavity shot: Still can't see any traces of chewmark, please point them out for me?
Yes the guy with that router that day was apparently very careful... If he was employed by Gibson, he definitely deserved a raise :)
Click to expand...

The ‘chew’ mark in yours is smooth and not the result of the forstner bit catching the lip of the cavity after the inset for the pots was drilled and roughly tearing out the mahogany.

More damning is that your cavity is the wrong shape at the 12 O’Clock position where the angled secondary route leaves a definitive V shape narrowing as it meets the maple floor- yours is square, plus the ‘lip’ for the control plate is too narrow in places.

I’m pretty sure the pickup leg holes on the front cavity are too shallow as illustrated here:

wYshAIa.jpg


As for the headstock- it’s the exaggerated ‘dome’ on the top of the moustache which is clearly wrong, and notably similar to a fake ‘50s Les Paul in the UK I was shown last month:

edgwzw8.jpg


As for the wiring channel bring in the wrong spot, I’ve seen these vary a good deal in the ‘52-‘55 range, but taking all the red flags pointed out by a number of highly knowledgeable members who have scores of vintage Les Pauls at their fingertips for decades I’d take their comments on board, that it’s either the most anomalous original ‘60 Burst any have seen, or fat more likely a fairly crude replica, of the common kind seen regularly pop up in the UK every couple of years. YMMV etc
 
2002standardmat

2002standardmat

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

From the get go this guitar just looks ‘off’ in quite a few ways and the more that it is discussed by people who know more than me doesn’t change this, to me.

And the matters they are discussing are some fo the very ones I spotted without trying.

If you don’t mind me asking what checks did you make before buying guitar that it is what it was believed to be? These things are not cheap even with changed parts? The vintage guitar market can be a little deceptive at times and it seems strange you bought a 1960 albeit with issues and then came on here asking some quite basic questions about restoring it, something just seems off to me.

Like others have said there were fakes and conversions in the 70s so the line of ownership you mention is by no means a certainty to its originality.

But whatever it turns out to be, nice case.
 
S. Weiger

S. Weiger

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Jumping@Shadows:

I think you quoted the wrong member(me) in your post #87 ?

I guess what you wanted was to quote Zapper (O.P.) from post #85 ?
 
latestarter

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

I'm late to the party.

Here's my '60 headstock for comparable logo...note the flat bottom of the B and S and sharp point bottom right of each letter?

GIN4D19.jpg




The OP logo is not a '60...and the bump at the top of the mustache is too round and high. sorry if it's been covered already. Agree with cavity comments also. There's been some good advice in this thread for the OP. Best wishes with it all.

nWH3PmT.jpg
 
Jumping@Shadows

Jumping@Shadows

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

sweiger said:
Jumping@Shadows:

I think you quoted the wrong member(me) in your post #87 ?

I guess what you wanted was to quote Zapper (O.P.) from post #85 ?
Click to expand...

Yes exactly- apologies mate!
 
El Gringo

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Greetings, as I cant see your images I will offer my 2 cents (adjusted for inflation down to a penny ) and start with ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups with A5 magnets , followed by a Throbak wiring Harness with 500k pots and Paper in oil Bumble bee Luxe Caps , followed by single line Kluson Deluxe Tuners which ThroBak also has in a nice aged condition along with an aged ABR-1 non wire bridge and a stop tailpiece as well. www.throbak.com I have currently 8 Les Paul's with the ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups for what it's worth and they are such a killer mid range beast with such a great tone !
 
akstrat61

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Those of us that have been around here for a number of years have seen a lot of these threads started. To the the O.P., take the guitar to someone who has handle a bunch of these and will know. Plain and simple. There are too many extremely knowledgeable people here telling you they have questions. The time trying to convince them is over. Best of luck. MHO :salude
 
HarryGT53

HarryGT53

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

A restoring "Zapper" needs HELP..!!
12.gif
by playing a nice game ?
Take a close look at each answer, nearly all possible inconsistencies are ruled out.
No sign of fear to have done a wrong purchase.
:salude
 
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S

SDMFVan

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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

I don't know nothing about nothing when it comes to these guitars, but it still only took me 5 seconds comparing the Les Paul logo on the confirmed one with yours to see the difference. The width of the brush strokes (so to speak) very clearly ebb and flow on the authentic one.
 
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