70's Gibsons. Show off your Norlins.

BrewCrew · Mar 12, 2019

Wilko said:
Those aren't Shaw codes. Those are the regular 498 humbuckers. Shaw codes are 137 XXX neck and 138 XXX bridge (IIRC)

Quote from Tim Shaw:
"
"This is pretty easy, really. At that time, the part numbers for pickups all began with “13”, so a Les Paul fingerboard pickup, in this particular series, was a 13137 and the bridge pickup was a 13138. Usually, but not always, they were consecutive numbers, and usually, but again not always, the fingerboard pickup was the lower of the two numbers, and again usually, but not always, the lower number was odd.

Your correspondent is right in deducing that the last three numbers are month and year.

I’m sorry that you guys get stuck answering questions about something that Gibson did in 1982. The sad thing is that nobody in their Customer Service remembers this, and I only do because I was there. They still have a few engineers from that period, but apparently the left hand can’t talk to the right hand!"

Tim"

Do you mean the 490/498 pickups? I'm not ruling that out. There certainly is a lot of conflicting information out there regarding Shaw's. I've even read before that the following are all Shaw codes:

401/402
489/490
329/330
137/138
372/373
498/499
392/393
898/899

I'm not saying whether those codes are factual or not. Just info I've seen posted before. I suppose I could pull the covers off and check out the spacers and magnet and check the readings, etc. Generally, I'm not too concerned whether they are/are not Shaw's. I bought the guitar thinking that they were. Now I'm just curious what they are period. Either way, they sound killer. I guess that's what matters after all!

Big Al · Mar 12, 2019

Deep Purple Fan said:
I have an original 1980 Les Paul Standard and it definitely has Tim Shaw pickups. In fact, it’s common.

I was a Gibson Repair Tech and salesman then, I KNOW. Everyone thinks because there is an ink stamp it's a Pat. App. For., [Shawbucker, the term I coined here over 20 yrs ago], reissue pickups. 137/138 only.

You have pu490 known as Original Humbucker which along with others switched from T top bobbins to the new square in a circle bobin as the last old t coil bobbins were used up.

Almost all the "Shawbuckers" I see for sale, or equipted on guitars, are infact not.

BrewCrew · Mar 12, 2019

Big Al said:
I was a Gibson Repair Tech and salesman then, I KNOW. Everyone thinks because there is an ink stamp it's a Pat. App. For., [Shawbucker, the term I coined here over 20 yrs ago], reissue pickups. 137/138 only.

You have pu490 known as Original Humbucker which along with others switched from T top bobbins to the new square in a circle bobin as the last old t coil bobbins were used up.

Almost all the "Shawbuckers" I see for sale, or equipted on guitars, are infact not.

Good info Big Al. I’ll have to read up on the 490’s. I had no idea those even existed, lol.

Big Al · Mar 13, 2019

BrewCrew said:
Good info Big Al. I’ll have to read up on the 490’s. I had no idea those even existed, lol.

490 was the "old" number used on what has been called "Ttops". When the Heritage Standard 80 and Elite were conceived a new vinage spec pickup was made, at first just on them, later on the Heritage Korina Explorer, Flying V and Modern, Kalamazoo Les Paul Award and Es335 Dot as well as aftermarket, in Gold or Nickle only, 6 polepiece hole baseplate and new PAF type bobbins in any mix of black or light cream under the cover. Not available sans cover.

The old Ttop pu490 was upgraded with the new bobbin but specs otherwise were the same. New part number and bobbin, same ol' Ttop, still called Original Humbucker.

Other Humbuckers were Super Humbucker, True Blues, Dirty Fingers and Velvet Brick.

BrewCrew · Mar 13, 2019

Big Al said:
490 was the "old" number used on what has been called "Ttops". When the Heritage Standard 80 and Elite were conceived a new vinage spec pickup was made, at first just on them, later on the Heritage Korina Explorer, Flying V and Modern, Kalamazoo Les Paul Award and Es335 Dot as well as aftermarket, in Gold or Nickle only, 6 polepiece hole baseplate and new PAF type bobbins in any mix of black or light cream under the cover. Not available sans cover.

The old Ttop pu490 was upgraded with the new bobbin but specs otherwise were the same. New part number and bobbin, same ol' Ttop, still called Original Humbucker.

Other Humbuckers were Super Humbucker, True Blues, Dirty Fingers and Velvet Brick.

Very interesting. My '79 Custom has what I believe to be T-tops, but sound distinctly different than the PU490's in my Standard. If I'm understanding correctly, the PU490's are essentially t-tops. So wouldn't they more or less sound the same? Of course, I'm also not ruling out that the Custom might actually have something other than T-tops. However, I think that was pretty standard in those guitars and the stamped date codes indicate they're original to the guitar. Here are those pics:

GoldTopBunny · Mar 13, 2019

This one stole my heart :yah beautiful!

Bob Womack said:
'74 Standard, all original. We've got a lot o' miles and smiles together.

Bob

Bob Womack · Mar 14, 2019

GoldTopBunny said:
This one stole my heart :yah beautiful!

Thank you so much!

Bob

charlie051 · Mar 14, 2019

Mark Stone said:
Since I put in the new pickups, I felt I needed to record a video. I really do love the tone of these pickups in this guitar. I haven't recorded myself in years. Please forgive the annoying cliché noodler licks...

Seriously. Norlin Era Les Pauls were the absolute worst. I understand people who own them wish to find a reason to love them. As with 70s era Stratocasters, they were awful guitars. Mismatched 3 piece sunburst tops. pancake bodies...there is nothing to love about that era Les Paul. The only redeeming finish is a Gold Top that hides all the flaws. They were horrid.

latestarter · Mar 14, 2019

charlie051 said:
Seriously. Norlin Era Les Pauls were the absolute worst. I understand people who own them wish to find a reason to love them. As with 70s era Stratocasters, they were awful guitars. Mismatched 3 piece sunburst tops. pancake bodies...there is nothing to love about that era Les Paul. The only redeeming finish is a Gold Top that hides all the flaws. They were horrid.

Dammit, now I gotta sell my matched top, 74 sunburst, with great neck, Pat No pickups, alloy tailpiece, Ebony board, awesome tone Les Paul. If only you'd told me earlier!

Deep Purple Fan · Mar 14, 2019

latestarter said:
Dammit, now I gotta sell my matched top, 74 sunburst, with great neck, Pat No pickups, alloy tailpiece, Ebony board, awesome tone Les Paul. If only you'd told me earlier!

stunning guitar.

marantz1300 · Mar 14, 2019

11 year old thread and still going.
.Fantastic.:dude:
I miss that gold top in post one. Still have my 69 Custom.

BrewCrew · Mar 14, 2019

marantz1300 said:
11 year old thread and still going.
.Fantastic.:dude:
I miss that gold top in post one. Still have my 69 Custom.

Love the black customs. Badass guitar!

Bob Womack · Mar 14, 2019

charlie051 said:
Seriously. Norlin Era Les Pauls were the absolute worst. I understand people who own them wish to find a reason to love them. As with 70s era Stratocasters, they were awful guitars. Mismatched 3 piece sunburst tops. pancake bodies...there is nothing to love about that era Les Paul. The only redeeming finish is a Gold Top that hides all the flaws. They were horrid.

Paging Mr. Al! Paging Big Al! Cleanup on aisle four!

Bob

Big Al · Mar 14, 2019

BrewCrew said:
Very interesting. My '79 Custom has what I believe to be T-tops, but sound distinctly different than the PU490's in my Standard. If I'm understanding correctly, the PU490's are essentially t-tops. So wouldn't they more or less sound the same? Of course, I'm also not ruling out that the Custom might actually have something other than T-tops. However, I think that was pretty standard in those guitars and the stamped date codes indicate they're original to the guitar. Here are those pics:

View attachment 9245

View attachment 9246

They should be, but man things were crazy then. 3 point bridges, fine tuning tailpieces, new models like The Paul, The SG, RD Artist Standard, Deluxe and Custom, Les Paul Pro Deluxe, Artisan, Artist and Recording, Marauders, S1s, L5S, 335S, L6S........... aaarrrrgh! There were more and crazy short runs as well as spec changes!

78-88 was a mixed bag of anything's possible. Brazilian topped Les Paul Customs, [not sure of exact year], Dixe Es335 with double creams and PEACH SUNBURST!!! All Les Pauls were spec'd with tune a matic bridges yet there are some with factory Schaller harmonica bridges which were never spec'd for them. There are no absolutes.

Different guitars sound different and you can't just hear pickups. You hear the whole of the guitar. That said, with the change of bobbins who knows what else may have changed. It is possible that there may be a longer or different magnet, or maybe just the subtle differences that pickups have always displayed. All I know is those are not Shawbuckers and Standards were spec'd for Original Humbuckers whether 490 Ttops or the newer version with newer bobbins and part number.

GoldTopBunny · Mar 14, 2019

This is my '76 custom, all original except for the knobs, when i got it it came with speed knobs, didnt like 'em and i recently changed them
Dont have a pic of the full body right now

oh! also dont have the original case

BrewCrew · Mar 14, 2019

Big Al said:
They should be, but man things were crazy then. 3 point bridges, fine tuning tailpieces, new models like The Paul, The SG, RD Artist Standard, Deluxe and Custom, Les Paul Pro Deluxe, Artisan, Artist and Recording, Marauders, S1s, L5S, 335S, L6S........... aaarrrrgh! There were more and crazy short runs as well as spec changes!

78-88 was a mixed bag of anything's possible. Brazilian topped Les Paul Customs, [not sure of exact year], Dixe Es335 with double creams and PEACH SUNBURST!!! All Les Pauls were spec'd with tune a matic bridges yet there are some with factory Schaller harmonica bridges which were never spec'd for them. There are no absolutes.

Different guitars sound different and you can't just hear pickups. You hear the whole of the guitar. That said, with the change of bobbins who knows what else may have changed. It is possible that there may be a longer or different magnet, or maybe just the subtle differences that pickups have always displayed. All I know is those are not Shawbuckers and Standards were spec'd for Original Humbuckers whether 490 Ttops or the newer version with newer bobbins and part number.

Crazy times indeed. Yet, they produced some amazing instruments. My two are stellar. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I've learned more in a few days after finally joining this forum than I have in years of researching on my own!

Big Al · Mar 14, 2019

BrewCrew said:
Crazy times indeed. Yet, they produced some amazing instruments. My two are stellar. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I've learned more in a few days after finally joining this forum than I have in years of researching on my own!

I'm afraid I added more to confusion than clarity but ya just have to engage a brother with such a nice pair.

.............
OF GUITARS!!! A NICE PAIR OF GUITARS!!!! GUITARS!!

Big Al · Mar 15, 2019

charlie051 said:
Seriously. Norlin Era Les Pauls were the absolute worst. I understand people who own them wish to find a reason to love them. As with 70s era Stratocasters, they were awful guitars. Mismatched 3 piece sunburst tops. pancake bodies...there is nothing to love about that era Les Paul. The only redeeming finish is a Gold Top that hides all the flaws. They were horrid.

Seriously. It takes a special breed of dumb ass to pop onto a thread about guitars full of fact, fun and fotos only to have some know nothing can't see past 59 fool try and impress us with his selective, discriminate brand of snobbish idiocy. Nothing but lame reasoning, piss poor understanding of luthiery and a reliance on superficial parroting of oft repeated same old nonsense that is just so old, tired and descredited. There is nothing to love about this type of poster, they are absolute worst. I understand the mothers that wish to find a reason to love them, but really they are horrid.:spabout:teeth

Deep Purple Fan · Mar 15, 2019

marantz1300 said:
11 year old thread and still going.
.Fantastic.:dude:
I miss that gold top in post one. Still have my 69 Custom.

Another great one. I’ve got one like it. A 20th anniversary Custom from 1974. It’s a very good guitar. Lots of fun.

I totally disagree with the notion that Norlin era guitars suck. I’ve got a 1980 Goldtop Standard that is also a joy to play. Both guitars are well made and sound fantastic. They both have that Les Paul dna in their growl. Gibson did try different things in this era. My 80 has a maple neck for example. But to call the guitars horrid is a stretch. They are pro quality. My biggest beef with Norlin is IMO they should have reissued a 59 burst in 68 instead of the run over many years they did with the deluxe. I plan to eventually pickup an early 70s deluxe, not a hater, but how much fun would have been if Gibson reissued the burst?

Finbar · Mar 15, 2019

Early 70s L5 CES. Very much a player and well broken in, but very much original (pickups, pots, pilgrim hats, tuners) aside from some finish repair . These are an exceptional experience and happy to have one in the collection. I have played late model L5s and mid sixties and there is a fair amount of consistancy in build quality across pre/post Norlin period. This one has a fairly narrow neck, but incredibly playable and super low action.

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