Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

renderit · Apr 21, 2018

0 2339 said:
i still think attenuator is the way to go, it's not more work than hooking up an fx pedal + with an attenuator that let's you choose input impedence you will be able to play any amp at bedroom levels. even a 5watt tube amp is plenty loud if you drive it hard so it might not be ideal for home use either. and you mentioned you wanna use a 12" exclusively.... another thing to consider is that a 5 watt tube amp will probably not hang clean with a drummer... depending on the style you play of course. that brings you back to the likes of 2x6v6/el84 and so on amps and back to definitely too loud for home use... so one last time this brings us back to an attenuator or any of the before mentioned ss/modeling/hybrid amps...

any decent amp tech should be able to install an onboard attenuator to your amps... which is probably more expensive than a good outboard unit.

and once more - play as many amps as you can, nothing else is a substitute for experience, not even all the well meaning replies on a forum... la

IMO a load box is a much better alternative. As me Dad always says "The RIGHT tool for the right job, knucklehead.".
https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/...EDROOM-amp!&highlight=My+100+watt+bedroom+amp

Pellman73 · Apr 21, 2018

So I have a rivera rockcrusher recording which works both as an attenuator and a load box--

I literally just got home from a hellish day at work and I'm playing my les paul into my Matchless into the the rivera with the XLR out put going to my mixer to my DAW and headphones. people are sleeping in the house

I DO have one of the new Universal Audio Ox on order as well. I'm not sure how it will compare to the Two notes but has similar interface with an iPAD doing speaker sim w pictures, changing room size

I do believe the future is now. recording guitar gonna be done like this with these load boxes with simulators. of course not always-- but its getting really good

I gotta think the new UA OX is killer

renderit · Apr 21, 2018

I want 12 minutes of my life back! (Skip the first 5 at least)!

Actually this is awesome! Now, I don't NEED it as my Torpedo does the same thing and I CAN run an attenuator after it, but as it is UA I might just 'go there' anyway! What an awesome piece of kit! AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them). Why did I put that all in caps? I have no clue! But I still insist that an attenuator is what you want when you just need to use say a 20 watt amp driven to distortion in a medium sized club. Use it on the same amp in a small club and it will sound like ass. Now I have trained mine (ass) to be very tuneful (with dietary restrictions) but attenuators are only wonderful in a somewhat limited range. If you used the load portion on the 20 watt and went through the PA your prayers are answered.

Do to what I was schooled on with the speaker efficiencies there is obviously even more to examine here. But at least there is still some awesome innovation at work here!

Here is another (better IMO) vid. They unashamedly COPIED the Torpedo! But added an attenuator. And $300.

P.P.S. I'm not sure about the wifi instead of wired or bluetooth. Do you have to use your own router at a gig or the venues wifi? I'm seeing a chink in the armor...

Pellman73 · Apr 21, 2018

renderit said:
I want 12 minutes of my life back! (Skip the first 5 at least)!

Actually this is awesome! Now, I don't NEED it as my Torpedo does the same thing and I CAN run an attenuator after it, but as it is UA I might just 'go there' anyway! What an awesome piece of kit! AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them). Why did I put that all in caps? I have no clue! But I still insist that an attenuator is what you want when you just need to use say a 20 watt amp driven to distortion in a medium sized club. Use it on the same amp in a small club and it will sound like ass. Now I have trained mine (ass) to be very tuneful (with dietary restrictions) but attenuators are only wonderful in a somewhat limited range. If you used the load portion on the 20 watt and went through the PA your prayers are answered.

Do to what I was schooled on with the speaker efficiencies there is obviously even more to examine here. But at least there is still some awesome innovation at work here!

Here is another (better IMO) vid. They unashamedly COPIED the Torpedo! But added an attenuator. And $300.

P.P.S. I'm not sure about the wifi instead of wired or bluetooth. Do you have to use your own router at a gig or the venues wifi? I'm seeing a chink in the armor...

Ren I THOUGHT you'd be intrigued by this. BTW the fact that you simply cannot get one right now (I've pre ordered thru sweet water and I think its a couple months wait now) suggests they are pretty sweet

Totally agree they stole Two notes whole thing... but doesn't the Two notes STUDIO also have the attenuator-- and its more than the Ox

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...7i6p95UP1bu1I25BLFVrg-bXh8QBAdnxoC0CkQAvD_BwE

I also think the ROOM dial is really interesting. Check this one out

NO CHINK IN THE ARMOR (that sounds racist btw. I believe some people are offended by that word. Sorry. had to)

The connection between your iOS and the box can be done either by its OWN built in wifi hotspot (so you don't need external network)-- you just see on your ipad or whatever the OX hot spot in the wireless network

OR

you can connect using an external network.

Pellman73 · Apr 21, 2018

renderit said:
I want 12 minutes of my life back! (Skip the first 5 at least)!

Actually this is awesome! Now, I don't NEED it as my Torpedo does the same thing and I CAN run an attenuator after it, but as it is UA I might just 'go there' anyway! What an awesome piece of kit! AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them). Why did I put that all in caps? I have no clue! But I still insist that an attenuator is what you want when you just need to use say a 20 watt amp driven to distortion in a medium sized club. Use it on the same amp in a small club and it will sound like ass. Now I have trained mine (ass) to be very tuneful (with dietary restrictions) but attenuators are only wonderful in a somewhat limited range. If you used the load portion on the 20 watt and went through the PA your prayers are answered.

Do to what I was schooled on with the speaker efficiencies there is obviously even more to examine here. But at least there is still some awesome innovation at work here!

Here is another (better IMO) vid. They unashamedly COPIED the Torpedo! But added an attenuator. And $300.

P.P.S. I'm not sure about the wifi instead of wired or bluetooth. Do you have to use your own router at a gig or the venues wifi? I'm seeing a chink in the armor...

I thought you'd be intrigued by this one!

I think its going to be great. Very hard to find. I think with a preorder its gonna be a few months

Agree they stole the Two notes thing! and Two notes does have the Studio-- which has a built in attenuator as well tho right?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...XmrlWKQ85sfu2e4PCP0G_8BpUqd1JYBBoCMEoQAvD_BwE

I think the ROOM dial is going to also be really cool-- check this one!

no chink in the armor. I looked at the manual and it has its OWN wifi network that you will see on your ipad wireless networks so you can connect directly OR if you have a strong wifi network at home you can use an external one to communicate

let me know when you have ordered yours!

mzblues1 · Apr 21, 2018

0 2339 said:
play as many amps as you can, nothing else is a substitute for experience, not even all the well meaning replies on a forum... la

Easier said than done. I went to 4 major stores here in NJ and their Brand selection is beyond pathetic.

However, I did get to try a few:
Marshall DSL5CR
Marshall DSL20HR
Boss Katana 50 - 50/25/0.5
Vox AC15C1
Vox AC10C1
Vox AC4C1
Fender Pro Junior IV
Fender Blues Junior III
Fender Bassbreaker 15
Bugera V22 Infinium
Orange Amplification Rocker 15
Blackstar HT1R
Blackstar HT5R

Of these, the only ones that I liked so far is the Blackstar's.

Progrocker111 · Apr 21, 2018

renderit said:
AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them).

Interesting device... Do you think this would handle fully cranked Hiwatt DR103 down to bedroom level? Or would the tone suffer too much with such heavy attenuation? :hmm

Pellman73 · Apr 21, 2018

Progrocker111 said:
Interesting device... Do you think this would handle fully cranked Hiwatt DR103 down to bedroom level? Or would the tone suffer too much with such heavy attenuation? :hmm

I think it would work great

renderit · Apr 21, 2018

Progrocker111 said:
Interesting device... Do you think this would handle fully cranked Hiwatt DR103 down to bedroom level? Or would the tone suffer too much with such heavy attenuation? :hmm

YES because then you are not using the attenuation, but instead the LOAD side.

In either case the attenuator is kinda just an attenuator. You can use it to take the amp from a large room to a small room while staying in the sweet spot. But at 'intimate' room settings there ain't one made that does not start sounding crappy. And I have several newer ones which claim the 'dynamic load' makes them better. They are, but not much.

The Torpedo Live I have (not the Studio with the attenuator (which is kinda stupid naming as it should be the other way around!)) or the OX above will take up to 100 or 150 watts (I don't remember which) and turn it out to headphone volume if you like. I usually put it through my desktop and through the monitors. And yes, it sounds like me on a record or CD. If I want to sound like I'm in Carneige Hall I can do it. And the wife can be sleeping in the next room and it still sounds great. I use it on 50 watt amps a lot and my Bassman clones. I now have a Z-Matcher which lets me convert 2 to 16 ohm to an 8 ohm if I wish.

And yes Pellman, I can adjust the size of the room on the Torpedo so they kinda copied it as well. But I like they way they did it on a dial. That makes it easier to throw it into the mix. But there is nothing on the OX that has not been done. I just like the manual interface features a bit better. But the Torpedo can be had around 800 bucks.

Please follow my link above. This stuff is really getting interesting, but be careful. Torpedo has come out with a newer cheaper box, but it has severe limitations just like the Mesa Cab Clone. But they show you can get into load boxes around the $400 mark. The Live and the OX above have MANY more features which make them MUCH more flexible though so watch yourself.

P.S. the only people who would be offended by the term above don't understand the meaning of the word as used which IS correct. I stand by it.

Pellman73 · Apr 22, 2018

renderit said:
YES because then you are not using the attenuation, but instead the LOAD side.

In either case the attenuator is kinda just an attenuator. You can use it to take the amp from a large room to a small room while staying in the sweet spot. But at 'intimate' room settings there ain't one made that does not start sounding crappy. And I have several newer ones which claim the 'dynamic load' makes them better. They are, but not much.

The Torpedo Live I have (not the Studio with the attenuator (which is kinda stupid naming as it should be the other way around!)) or the OX above will take up to 100 or 150 watts (I don't remember which) and turn it out to headphone volume if you like. I usually put it through my desktop and through the monitors. And yes, it sounds like me on a record or CD. If I want to sound like I'm in Carneige Hall I can do it. And the wife can be sleeping in the next room and it still sounds great. I use it on 50 watt amps a lot and my Bassman clones. I now have a Z-Matcher which lets me convert 2 to 16 ohm to an 8 ohm if I wish.

And yes Pellman, I can adjust the size of the room on the Torpedo so they kinda copied it as well. But I like they way they did it on a dial. That makes it easier to throw it into the mix. But there is nothing on the OX that has not been done. I just like the manual interface features a bit better. But the Torpedo can be had around 800 bucks.

Please follow my link above. This stuff is really getting interesting, but be careful. Torpedo has come out with a newer cheaper box, but it has severe limitations just like the Mesa Cab Clone. But they show you can get into load boxes around the $400 mark. The Live and the OX above have MANY more features which make them MUCH more flexible though so watch yourself.

P.S. the only people who would be offended by the term above don't understand the meaning of the word as used which IS correct. I stand by it.

totally agree that the studio should be called the live and the live the studio !!!

Ps: I regretted making the joke a little but... just from the basic word play on "chink the the armor" is funny if we can go there. OBVIE the word can have two meanings. and if you take the one meaning and apply it to In the Armor it is funny. to me anyhow.... and I KNOW you like word play--(which leads me to what I want to know which is what he hell did you do for a living on this planet) -- If the world hadn't gone completely effing insane. What ever happened to Blazing Saddles and Mel Brooks. I think we were making some progress there....

renderit · Apr 22, 2018

Pellman73 said:
Ps: I regretted making the joke a little but... just from the basic word play on "chink the the armor" is funny if we can go there. OBVIE the word can have two meanings. and if you take the one meaning and apply it to In the Armor it is funny. to me anyhow.... and I KNOW you like word play--(which leads me to what I want to know which is what he hell did you do for a living on this planet) -- If the world hadn't gone completely effing insane. What ever happened to Blazing Saddles and Mel Brooks. I think we were making some progress there....

I know you were joking. And yes, the world IS completely insane. Exactly what do these people think we do between the logs on our cabins. Stuff people in them? Learn your languages people, or be destined to sound more idiotic than eye...

ourmaninthenorth · Apr 22, 2018

I'm not in the least bit surprised at the technical knowledge of you geezers. This stuff is fascinating.

The one thing that took me off 100 & 50 watters and the attendant volume problems , to the low watters was a matter of me having to keep things simple. I don't have the competencies to do otherwise.

So as a personal observation, I'd rather run a 1/2 watter at full tilt, just a guitar and a cable, straight in. Than a much more powerful amp where I'm having to put some sort of sonic brake on, to make it usable in my personal environment.

I even indulged myself in a pedal!!! Gad-bloody-zooks...that I also used as a quasi attenuation type thing...

Here's the little thing that satisfied all my needs..nothing I've not shown before. The culmination of years and years of experimentation...and a lot of dead ends along the way.

jalevinemd · Apr 22, 2018

I'm a little confused. If the amp is mic'd for performances and you've got your own floor monitor or IEM, what amp is not going to be loud enough to play over the drummer? It's not like you need to hear the sound coming directly from the amp's speaker...right?

sonar · Apr 22, 2018

mzblues1 said:
Easier said than done. I went to 4 major stores here in NJ and their Brand selection is beyond pathetic.

However, I did get to try a few:
Marshall DSL5CR
Marshall DSL20HR
Boss Katana 50 - 50/25/0.5
Vox AC15C1
Vox AC10C1
Vox AC4C1
Fender Pro Junior IV
Fender Blues Junior III
Fender Bassbreaker 15
Bugera V22 Infinium
Orange Amplification Rocker 15
Blackstar HT1R
Blackstar HT5R

Of these, the only ones that I liked so far is the Blackstar's.

Reads like the thread has a bunch of different hijacks. Sorry.

Anyway, looks like you've narrowed it down. Your ears offer the best advice.

mzblues1 · Apr 22, 2018

ourmaninthenorth said:
The one thing that took me off 100 & 50 watters and the attendant volume problems , to the low watters was a matter of me having to keep things simple. I don't have the competencies to do otherwise.

So as a personal observation, I'd rather run a 1/2 watter at full tilt, just a guitar and a cable, straight in. Than a much more powerful amp where I'm having to put some sort of sonic brake on, to make it usable in my personal environment.

Exactly.

I've bought a bunch of pedals in the past that ended up unused in the closet. The only ones that I ever used more regularly were the RAT and Tube Screamer distortion pedals. And that was because there was no other way to take the amps up to the volume needed.

I've already re-wired my Les Paul for 50's vintage with the desire to learn to use the volume & tone controls on the guitar for all the sounds that I would need and totally eliminate all of my pedals (except my VOX Wah which is a keeper!).

It just feels more "grown up" without the aid of a pedal in the mix for me (No offence to you rockers who love their pedals).
I just want to be one with my guitar and amp...just the 3 of us (me, guitar & amp); plug and play..."simple".

RJLII · Apr 22, 2018

mzblues1 said:
Exactly.

I've bought a bunch of pedals in the past that ended up unused in the closet. The only ones that I ever used more regularly were the RAT and Tube Screamer distortion pedals. And that was because there was no other way to take the amps up to the volume needed.

I've already re-wired my Les Paul for 50's vintage with the desire to learn to use the volume & tone controls on the guitar for all the sounds that I would need and totally eliminate all of my pedals (except my VOX Wah which is a keeper!).

It just feels more "grown up" without the aid of a pedal in the mix for me (No offence to you rockers who love their pedals).
I just want to be one with my guitar and amp...just the 3 of us (me, guitar & amp); plug and play..."simple".

But the whole “I want the tone without a pedal and the volume” is problematic. Even super low wattage amps get pretty loud. I have a Victoria Regal II. One of my favorite setups is a single coke bottle 6F6G for about 3 Watts. It’s a righteous sound, with grit and harmonics and a very reasonable volume level. It’s still loud enough to piss off my bride, and she’s pretty tolerant.

renderit · Apr 23, 2018

sonar said:
Reads like the thread has a bunch of different hijacks. Sorry.

Anyway, looks like you've narrowed it down. Your ears offer the best advice.

Could it be because there are a few different ways to solve the age-old problem? Particularly when I'm guessing 99.9% of the people that ask as well as that percentage of advice givers have never even heard many of the solutions personally? Could be. I am not sorry. I think it looks like most of the bases are now covered. The :

0-3 watt tubes
Solid State
More efficient speakers
Pedal to powered speaker (a NEW one to me!)
Attenuators
Load Boxes
Complete sims aka AXE/FX

Many went outside the base 350 requirement, but some were presented as a 'you can do this after the original purchase' so they are valid.
Truth is it is no longer a simple question. Though some might prefer a 'buy xyz and nothing else'.

mzblues1 · Apr 23, 2018

Got to try the Egnater Tweaker-112, but it's too heavy and too loud (though it sounded O.K.).

I think (although haven't had the opportunity to actually play one), based on the size, weight, components and sound from what I've heard in video reviews online, I am thinking the Laney Cub 12R will fit the bill the best. It is loud enough at 15 Watts for small club playing and also has 0.75 watt setting for the house. An easy pick up and go amp with British/Marshall tones available.

However, I have read that the new Monoprice 15 Watts basically the exact same amp, except that it is switchable within one input from 15 Wt - 0.75 Wt (as apposed to 2 separate inputs), Has a real Spring Reverb (instead of digital), Has Celestion Seventy 80 (rather than Celestion Rocket 50 or HH 12" made for Laney [per their literature] and is cheaper.

So I'm thinking of getting the Monoprice, and possibly switching out one of the 12AX7's to a 12AT7 if I need additional headroom, and get a better spring reverb unit if it sounds like crap. All of which is not a lot of $ to do. And in the future, I might change to a Greenback or Vintage 30 if desired.

Any opinions on these options?

sonar · Apr 23, 2018

renderit said:
Could it be because there are a few different ways to solve the age-old problem? Particularly when I'm guessing 99.9% of the people that ask as well as that percentage of advice givers have never even heard many of the solutions personally? Could be. I am not sorry. I think it looks like most of the bases are now covered. The :

0-3 watt tubes
Solid State
More efficient speakers
Pedal to powered speaker (a NEW one to me!)
Attenuators
Load Boxes
Complete sims aka AXE/FX

Many went outside the base 350 requirement, but some were presented as a 'you can do this after the original purchase' so they are valid.
Truth is it is no longer a simple question. Though some might prefer a 'buy xyz and nothing else'.

Sure. Many ways to solve the problem, but he asked a rather specific question. Also, reading his posts (which I'm unsure if many in this thread did) shows that he is looking at a narrow list of commercially available amps. Many of these amps I and others have played, some extensively. And I am sorry he got answers for amps that cost up to ten times his budget, or adding additional equipment like attenuation, digital sims, etc. Oh yeah, the efficient speaker into a mini watt amp blah blah...

it adds to a conversation, just not necessarily his.

Pellman73 · Apr 23, 2018

I'd call it a Benevolent Hijack

Like... if the plane was headed to Hawaii we wen too Fiji instead or something

Its true if you go back to the original question there was an issue of budget

but I think the whole issue is its tough to find what HE wanted which was AND I QUOTE "Looking for a low watt tube amp to play Blues & Blues/Rock at small venues and in the house (so that I don't hear it from the family)."

not sure such a magical beast exists.

the best low volume cheap amps that make great sounds at low volume, in my opinion, right now-- are the Yamaha THRU amps.... they are amazing

but I don't think you can gig w it

Tech 21 trademarks (10) have XLR outputs and sound great at very very low volume (and can use headphones) and perhaps finding something like that which allows you to plug into a PA system

There may be some other modeling thing by LIne 6 I'd gather that has blue tooth that would allow you to blue tooth to some monitor speakers to gig w as well.

I had a Blues JR and it want from nothing to LOUD I thought

but we did digress a bit away from the budget thing into an academic discussion about all the possible things

and no harm was done, I believe

we are talking about guitar stuff...

Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

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