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The Dark Horse

j45

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Jun 14, 2002
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Here's one we don't talk about much here. It's the archtop equivalent of the J-45 or maybe even the Les Paul Standard...a pro level, hi-quality workingman's guitar and one Gibson's longest running, most successful models. The "L7" is also the single best bang for the buck archtop ever to come out of Kalamazoo. The L7 is the same "guitar" as an L-5, the exact scale and body dimensions, bracing, same carved spruce top, maple back and sides, etc.

The only real difference between the L7 and L5 or L7-C and L5-C is cosmetics and a huge amount of money. The L5 gets fancier binding, inlays, headstock ornament, gold plated engraved tailpiece, gold plated tuner upgrade, ebony board, and fancy bound tortoise pickguard. For a fraction of the L5's heavy price tag you can get the guitar that is every way equal as a fine instrument and honestly, I believe no less beautiful.

That you can still find these hand carved solid spruce top works of art (non-cutaway versions) made 60 and 70 years ago for UNDER $2k is insane. Gibson would probably charge us $6K-$7K or more to custom shop recreate one of these in the same fashion and you would still not have near the wood these oldies have. A true "Golden Era" vintage Kalamzoo cutaway L7-C model will cost you no more than a used R9. They are (or equal to) the finest hand made instruments ever built and shipped by Gibson.

I had three L7's in my collection a few years ago. Owned quite a few more in the past. In 2006 I had two 1930's non-cut models and this (pics below) relatively rare 1948 L-7P or "Premier" model. Gibson used the "P" designation for the "C" or cutaway models in the first or "premier" year they were introduced.

So here's a thread in tribute to one of Gibson's finest yet littlest talked about guitars. I know there are other members that own L7's so feel free to post pics.

1948 Gibson L7-Premier
IMG_8961.jpg


IMG_8987.jpg
 

ZZ Not

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Jul 15, 2001
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I believe these are made in Bozeman and the list is $6903.00. I have seen them for around $4K in the shops.

Are you saying the quality of the wood and /or construction would likely not be up to snuff?

L7C.jpg
 

j45

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Are you saying the quality of the wood and /or construction would likely not be up to snuff?

No, I honestly can't say that I know that from anything factual. I haven't seen a modern version. I would be willing to bet whatever the quality, they would be quite different. Just like new counterparts of all vintage guitars. one may prefer new, one may prefer old. They are rarely the same or share a lot in common. I will say that I would probably prefer to own an L7 made 60 or 70 years ago for one third the price of the one above, though.
 

Brown Recluse

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Last summer I traded this '39 L-5N

LG_39_L5_full.jpg


LG_39_L5_back.jpg


for this January of '49 L-7XP

IMG_0049.jpg


IMG_0048.jpg


IMG_0047.jpg


The L-5N was gorgeous, however, it weighed a ton and didn't sound very good. The L-7XP is very light and it sounds really good. It's one of the best sounding archtops I have, and I have several pre-war Gibsons and a couple of Epiphones.
 

tooold

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Great points about the L-7, Kerry. One thing you didn't mention (probably because it's so obvious) is that, with an L-7, you get to join the "Double Parallelogram" club... L-7's, ES-300's and 350's, SJ's, and, of course, 345's. Did I miss any? :hmm
 

Mr. 355

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Jan 21, 2004
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Great points about the L-7, Kerry. One thing you didn't mention (probably because it's so obvious) is that, with an L-7, you get to join the "Double Parallelogram" club... L-7's, ES-300's and 350's, SJ's, and, of course, 345's. Did I miss any? :hmm

Barney Kessel Standard, ES 175, Hummingbird, Dove, Country & Western. I belive that I once read an assertion by George Gruhn that guitars like L7's L4's didn't have the same level of time, care, and sophitcation put into carving their tops vs. L5's and Super 400's. Any truth to this?
 

Brown Recluse

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Barney Kessel Standard, ES 175, Hummingbird, Dove, Country & Western. I belive that I once read an assertion by George Gruhn that guitars like L7's L4's didn't have the same level of time, care, and sophitcation put into carving their tops vs. L5's and Super 400's. Any truth to this?

This may have been the case, however, I've had lowly L-50 guitars from the 30's that had wood as figured as any that I have seen on an L-5 or Super 400. One of the L-50's that I had was also a great sounding guitar. The general quality of materials, attention to detail and pride in their craft resulted in some great playing and sounding guitars, regardless of the level of ornamentation. Look at that L-5N I traded for the black L-7XP. The materials and detail work were great, however, the guitar didn't sound any where near as good as the L-7XP. Part of it is the luck of the draw, the right combination of wood and labor can result in an exceptional instrument or one that is far less than stellar.
 

tuberide

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Feb 17, 2005
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Tonal differences have to be significant when taking into consideration the ebony vs. rosewood fretboard and bridge. Please elaborate with regard to tonal differences in your experience gents.
 

j45

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Speaking of the full sized archtops, other than six or seven L-7's I've owned one 16" L-5, one "advanced" 17" non-cutawayL-5, two 1950's L5-C's, an L-12P, and one 1940's Super 400 which was non-cut. The L-5/L-7tonal differences overlap as much as any two like models would so I can't say that one sounds better or different due to features. I've played quite a few more. Some were great and some were not good at all and this was not dependent on features. I have yet to play a Super 400 that I think sounds as good as an L5 or L7. Much like the J200 I question the acoustic properties of the design. Out of my L-5's and L-7's I felt like a 1934 non cut and 1948 cutaway L-7 were easily the best sounding. I would think this is strictly the luck of the draw. I do have doubts that L-5's are consistently any better than L-7's in sound and playability. My more intense fascination with archtops faded away somewhat in the late 90's but I will definitely own another carved top Gibson one day.

I've had more than a few cutaway and non-cut L-4's, L-47, L-30, etc. and these can sound quite good as well. Not the same kind of thing as a big body L model, though. I find guitars like L-4C's serve me much better with something like a Mccarty or Dearmond installed. Not crazy about the acoustic sound of any i've had.
 

Plankspanker

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"That you can still find these hand carved solid spruce top works of art (non-cutaway versions) made 60 and 70 years ago for UNDER $2k is insane"


Kerry........I've always beleived that the tops on the L-7 are solid carved Spruce, does this apply to the back also? Every once in awhile you hear someone say that the L-7s Tops were ply, which I don't think is correct.
 

j45

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Hi Robert, haven't heard from you in a while. I hope I'm not getting myself in too deep. I was going through old pics last night while I had a Saturday night off. I found a lot of my archtop pics and still find it amazing that they are available for less money than the reissues in a lot of cases. I feel like these more so than electrics represent what insured Gibson's place in history as the finest American guitar builder....way befor the electrics even came along.

I don't know that any L-7's from the 60's back to 1930's are ply tops. I'm not sure I've ever heard this. I'd like to make it clear that even though I've owned so many vintage guitars over the years and write often I'm in no way an educated expert. Anything I've learned was done much like a monkey would be taught by seeing the same things over and over again until he finally starts to get a little bitof understanding from repetition. the backs of older L-5's are solid and carved. I know backs and sides of a lot of maple Gibsons became ply in the 60's. If anyone knows any more about construction diferences by all means speak up.
 
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Plankspanker

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Thanks Kerry for the info. I've owned several L-7s, mostly the non-cutaways, and all of them appeared to have solid spruce tops.
I've got a nice clean L-7N I've got to take some pics of and post.
 

DHBucker

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Jul 18, 2007
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Hi Robert, haven't heard from you in a while. I hope I'm not getting myself in too deep. I was going through old pics last night while I had a Saturday night off. I found a lot of my archtop pics and still find it amazing that they are available for less money than the reissues in a lot of cases. I feel like these more so than electrics represent what insured Gibson's place in history as the finest American guitar builder....way befor the electrics even came along.

I don't know that any L-7's from the 60's back to 1930's are ply tops. I'm not sure I've ever heard this. I'd like to make it clear that even though I've owned so many vintage guitars over the years and write often I'm in no way an educated expert. Anything I've learned was done much like a monkey would be taught by seeing the same things over and over again until he finally starts to get a little bitof understanding from repetition. the backs of older L-5's are solid and carved. I know backs and sides of a lot of maple Gibsons became ply in the 60's. If anyone knows any more about construction diferences by all means speak up.

Kerry,
Do you know where one can be found for 2k or under. I would add one to my collection just to have a great arch top by Gibson. I'm sure they are a blast to play and as I respect your opinion would love to look into one. Thanks.
 

Tom Wittrock

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Aug 2, 2001
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Kerry,
Do you know where one can be found for 2k or under. I would add one to my collection just to have a great arch top by Gibson. I'm sure they are a blast to play and as I respect your opinion would love to look into one. Thanks.

Email me. :)
 
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tooold

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Tonal differences have to be significant when taking into consideration the ebony vs. rosewood fretboard and bridge. Please elaborate with regard to tonal differences in your experience gents.

Can't speak to the ebony board, but I swapped the rosewood bridge for ebony on my '29 L-5/L-10 and was staggered by the lack of a difference. Maybe a little brighter.

I think a lot of the difficulties we have with the acoustic tone of these archtops is that we almost all are coming from flat-tops, which have a specific sound. Archtops - the higher end guitars, at least - were made for a pretty specific purpose, which was playing rhythm in loud jazz bands with horn sections. They were designed to be percussive, and to cut when played hard. This can translate into a less responsive guitar when played solo like a flat-top.

I really like my L-5/L-10 (it has two labels). It's 16", so it doesn't have that huge body, it's really light, and, while it doesn't sound like a flat-top - it's more mid-range-y - it's really responsive. It also has just about my favorite neck ever.

The Carl Kress and Dick McDonough records from the 30's are a nice example of what two L-5's from the period sound like when played well as a duo, away from the band context. Great stuff.
 

Hammertone

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Jun 11, 2002
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Somehow this thread from the past popped up in my email - no idea why. I've played and owned a bunch of L-7 guitars, and still have a couple of them around here in one of the bunkers.

...I belive that I once read an assertion by George Gruhn that guitars like L7's L4's didn't have the same level of time, care, and sophitcation put into carving their tops vs. L5's and Super 400's. Any truth to this?
Nope. Complete BS.

...I've always beleived that the tops on the L-7 are solid carved Spruce, does this apply to the back also? Every once in awhile you hear someone say that the L-7s Tops were ply, which I don't think is correct.
L-7 tops were never ply. They are always carved. If any exist that are ply, they are either mistakes or were custom ordered that way for god-knows-what reason.
Starting in '38, with the introduction of the ES-300, one does find the occasional L-7 with a laminated back. Post-war L-7 guitars occasionally have laminated backs. The vast majority of these guitars have carved backs. Very easy to tell - the laminated backs are typically one piece with no center seam.

No, I honestly can't say that I know that from anything factual. I haven't seen a modern version. I would be willing to bet whatever the quality, they would be quite different. Just like new counterparts of all vintage guitars. one may prefer new, one may prefer old. They are rarely the same or share a lot in common. I will say that I would probably prefer to own an L7 made 60 or 70 years ago for one third the price of the one above, though.

The Bozeman L-7C built from 2003 to 2012 is remarkably similar to the Advanced L-7 of the 1930's. I have played several and they were all superb acoustic archtops. The design is a mash-up of features:
-'30s-style double-hump carve, x-bracing, short scale, mahogany neck
-P-style cutaway carve
-L-12 or late '30's L-7 double parallelogram inlays,
-postwar headstock, tailpiece, tuners
-L-12-style sunburst on back and rims

The only issue with these guitars is the utter POS pickguards with which they were equipped. Complete fail, but easy enough to remedy with decent replacement or vintage pickguards.
 
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Hamerfan

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Dec 20, 2004
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I have a 1948 L7C. My take was -reading Gruhn's book, that all postwar L7 have laminated backs. But nevertheless thanks for the head-up with the centerseam on the solid backs.
 

Tom Wittrock

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It may be [nine years] too late to say this, but I don't think L-7s are equivalent to J-45s. L-7s are much higher in the line. :)
 
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