• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

What about the Duncan '59 in the bridge?

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
I was initially really hesitant about changing magnets because I thought it was a dangerous and tricky process. I was wrong. It's a very easy process.

And statements by this guy that says if I think I can make a better pickup than Seymour Duncan:

Go to the Duncan forum and ask them about this process. They will all concur that swapping magnets in pickups is a very worthwhile thing to do and you can easily change the sound of your pickup without spending another $80.00.

And what are you fucking talking about selling mislabeled gear?

I'm not doing that. I would never think of selling mislabeled gear. That is an idiotic fucking statement to make.

Obviously this guy is clueless.

Deleted
Zentar, if you post another anti Semitic comment, you will be banned. Moderator
 
Last edited by a moderator:

LtKojak

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
208
Rome fell from within.
Is there a point you'd like to make, somehow, contained in this statement, that's in any way relevant to the matter we're discussing?

I bet there isn't any... but you're welcome to prove me wrong. I'd pretty much like to see you try, at least.

I'm waiting... tick, tick, tick... :eek:la

Well...?
 

LtKojak

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
208
There's no need. SD 59's sound great as is. I've used them since 77 and never felt the need to perform overhyped magnet swaps on them.
So, what you're saying is, due od "not feeling the need" you've never actually made mag swaps, am I right?
Overhyped. Exaggerated benefits claimed.
The magnet has an audible effect on tone but it is subtle and nowhere near as effective. All more effective than a magnet swap.
Sorry Big Al, but I'm a bit confused by your statements here: if you by own admission never have made any mag swap, how would you know that they actually are "overhyped"?

See, it totally goes against all p'up makers, which design, produce, and sell different products with several alnico grades and/or employ ceramic magnets in their products. So, are you implying that the p'up makers have been making a living from over sixty years solely based on "overhype"?

Would you please be so kind to remind us what exactly entail having "extensive experience with PAFs" that's relevant to the counter-argument you're making against mag-swapping?

Mind you, I'm not trying to deliberately being dense; but as for many years I've been having the exact opposite experience you've had, and this experience is in line with all p'up makers, I'm just trying to understand where and/or what is this coming from... that's all.

Hoping in hear from you soon,

Yours very truly,
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
Is there a point you'd like to make, somehow, contained in this statement, that's in any way relevant to the matter we're discussing?

I bet there isn't any... but you're welcome to prove me wrong. I'd pretty much like to see you try, at least.

I'm waiting... tick, tick, tick... :eek:la

Well...?

I already communicated why I am against swapping magnets. People swap magnets and they then sell the pickup on the used market having not being happy with the change they made. Yet they do not record on the pickup the changes they made because they forgot about it. That is why I stopped buying used pickups. I ended up with a used SD with what appeared to be a cheap short magnet from a very low end pup. It was not the A5 set that SD sold with the original pup.

Record what changes you make to a pickup or amplifier with a Sharpie for the next guy who owns it.
 

LtKojak

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
208
I already communicated why I am against swapping magnets. People swap magnets and they then sell the pickup on the used market having not being happy with the change they made.
As you can't know what grade of alnico it is just by looking at it, only with a calibrated gaussmeter, and not even with that in all cases, how would you know the p'up you bought didn't have the magnet it supposedly should be there?

The fridge test works only with magnets that have plus than 200% charge difference, like with A2 and A5, and works only if you know for sure the grade of one of them.

In my experience of over fifteen years buying used p'ups, meaning making a pretty conservative assessment of at least five hundred units, not even once the magnet inside didn't match the original spec. So I wonder... that "short magnet" that you found... how did you know that it came from a "very low end" p'up and not from an extremely expensive, custom-produced-batch of a short UOA5, specifically formuled to give a "Shaw" vibe to a 3rd. party p'up, a Seymour Duncan in your case, or it could also have been an original late '50s vintage magnet, worth about $ 300,00 in the Vintage Collector market?

Care to tell?

Rome fell from within.

PS: *sigh* I'm in a good mood, so I'll help to enrich your pretty low cultural level: Rome, never, ever fell... that's the reason of being known as "The Eternal City". It was the Roman Empire that "fell" (although it could be argued that it "evolved", to be more precise, but that's for another time). Not Rome. Not then, not now, not ever. So no, not even that statement, clumsily intended as an insult, hit the target, so to speak, but missed it entirely and then some. And the "icing on the cake" is: I come from Milan, not Rome. It's even written at your left, in "Location". It's the second biggest city in Italy, better known as being the center of the Italian Fashion industry, catering the whole wide world. Look it up, you might learn something! ;)

Better luck next time, pal! Just stick with name calling, looks like subtlety is obviously not your strong side, I'm afraid. ;)
 
Last edited:

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
Kojak you are not paying attention. I told you the magnets were short cheap magnets. They looked like refrigerator magnets. They would bend. They were not hard, brittle A5 that SD uses.
 

LtKojak

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
208
Kojak you are not paying attention. I told you the magnets were short cheap magnets. They looked like refrigerator magnets. They would bend. They were not hard, brittle A5 that SD uses.
You're telling me this know, not before.

So you've been had by about five bucks. I sincerely hope that after that loss, you didn't had to put a second mortgage on the house!

Man, it's been fun, now it's getting tedious, so tada!

LtKojak out! *mic drop*
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Actually I found that the stock Duncan 59 does in fact have too much brightness in the bridge. It would benefit from a magnet swap. They're not overhyped. I just swapped the magnet in a Custom that also sounded too brittle. And now it sounds fantastic. Much smoother more creamy treble.

So a couple of days ago you hadn't tried one and hadn't ever swapped magnets, showed no knowlege of magnets and what, in two days you swap magnets, [what for what?], and then pickups and now you know so much you can make pronouncements? Right.:hmm
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Wrong. I was using a non-bright string already. Nothing wrong with my Dunlop 1.3 mm pick. Does not add so called brightness. Monkeying with the tone controls will also muddy your bass strings which is not what you want. That is a poor approach to controlling tone.

Change the magnet. Best solution.

Really? So your amp settings are perfect, your strings are perfect as is your magic Dunlop pick, [Dunlop makes a gazillion 1.3mm picks in al kinds of materials and shapes with a broad range of tone],.

You've surpassed every legend of guitar, all those dull muffled tones by Clapton, Beck, Page, Green, Kossof, Walsh, Allman, Betts, Santana, Hacket, Howe, Gibbons, West, ....... yup can you imagine if they only swapped their magnets instead of using their ears and tone knobs!!

We stand in the presence of genius.:salude
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
So, what you're saying is, due od "not feeling the need" you've never actually made mag swaps, am I right?

Sorry Big Al, but I'm a bit confused by your statements here: if you by own admission never have made any mag swap, how would you know that they actually are "overhyped"?

See, it totally goes against all p'up makers, which design, produce, and sell different products with several alnico grades and/or employ ceramic magnets in their products. So, are you implying that the p'up makers have been making a living from over sixty years solely based on "overhype"?

Would you please be so kind to remind us what exactly entail having "extensive experience with PAFs" that's relevant to the counter-argument you're making against mag-swapping?

Mind you, I'm not trying to deliberately being dense; but as for many years I've been having the exact opposite experience you've had, and this experience is in line with all p'up makers, I'm just trying to understand where and/or what is this coming from... that's all.

Hoping in hear from you soon,

Yours very truly,

Oh, let's be clear. I understand magnets very well, not an expert but decades of experience. If you check, you'll find that I touted magnet swaps for specific fine tuning of tone, after the tone chain has been tweaked and dialed in, here on the forum 20 years ago. To get that tiny extra bit of a specific effect for the rare case the magnets effect is suppression or bolstering overtones and harmonics. Unless you are changing from a grade 3 to a grade 8, the overall effect is subtle. Unlike the hype around magnet swaps, the magical panacea that transforms run of the mill pickups into mythical, wonderous, magnificent tone beasts, what I have found is that in most cases the change is slight and subtle and rarely transforms the pickup to the degree claimed. Yes, there is an audible change and in cases where that subtle change is extremely desired, say making a short magnet paf sound exactly like a long magnet version, or removing the mutiple high gauss magnets of a 500T for a single weaker magnet, swapping offers usable results.

The problem is that almost every time these questions pop up there is a chous of tinker junkies crying out to change the magnet. Makes little sense without first examining the tone chain. A pickup can sound quite different with Stainless or other alloy strings vs pure nickle, or if a magical Dunlop 1.3mm pick is celluloid, nylon, delrin etc.. is used.

A quality potentiometer with a carefully considered capacitor value is almost always the best way to control treble and can be varied depending upon the venue. There is rarely too much treble playing with a band. I've played many gigs with rooms that boom and suck the high end, just swallow it up.

I mentioned paf's as a 59b is a paf type pickup. Paf's are bright, clear and powerful, just like a Duncan SH1. The claim that they are too bright is just ridiculous when no one seems troubled by paf Gibsons from 57-63. Maybe swap out those pesky magnets!!

As I said, I never found the need to change magnets on Duncan SH1 59 pickups, not that I've never changed magnets.
I know Seymour and I know his passion for magnets. I sat with him and Bill Lawrence while they discussed MAGNETS for a couple of hours. I doubt that there is anybody that understands magnets, magnetic field effects in a coil and how it relates to guitar tone than Mr. Duncan or Mr. Blucher.

Seymour taught me the importance of a well chosen magnet and coil and polepieces and as you said there is a lot of work and expertese in designing a pickup, math, physics and decades of experience.

I know who's experience I trust.
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
Really? So your amp settings are perfect, your strings are perfect as is your magic Dunlop pick, [Dunlop makes a gazillion 1.3mm picks in al kinds of materials and shapes with a broad range of tone],.

You've surpassed every legend of guitar, all those dull muffled tones by Clapton, Beck, Page, Green, Kossof, Walsh, Allman, Betts, Santana, Hacket, Howe, Gibbons, West, ....... yup can you imagine if they only swapped their magnets instead of using their ears and tone knobs!!

We stand in the presence of genius.:salude
Big Al , Good Sir you get the best post of the day ! I may think my amp settings are perfect on my Marshall 2555X , but I know better that someone else will say that they like it in this way . My strings gauge and maker might be good for me but someone else likes something else . My choice of picks works for me , but others like something else and that is fine and dandy because the moral to my post is that there are choices in life and we get to choose for ourselves and that's what makes the world go round -CHOICES . Great Post Big Al !
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Big Al , Good Sir you get the best post of the day ! I may think my amp settings are perfect on my Marshall 2555X , but I know better that someone else will say that they like it in this way . My strings gauge and maker might be good for me but someone else likes something else . My choice of picks works for me , but others like something else and that is fine and dandy because the moral to my post is that there are choices in life and we get to choose for ourselves and that's what makes the world go round -CHOICES . Great Post Big Al !

I was trying to make the point that choices affect tone. Everyone has favorites that hopefully help shape the desired overall tone. Things like simple pick choices or string alloy can have a more dramatic effect than changing magnets. A simple tone knob tweak is often all that is needed.
 

357mag

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
22
Really? So your amp settings are perfect, your strings are perfect as is your magic Dunlop pick, [Dunlop makes a gazillion 1.3mm picks in al kinds of materials and shapes with a broad range of tone],.

You've surpassed every legend of guitar, all those dull muffled tones by Clapton, Beck, Page, Green, Kossof, Walsh, Allman, Betts, Santana, Hacket, Howe, Gibbons, West, ....... yup can you imagine if they only swapped their magnets instead of using their ears and tone knobs!!

We stand in the presence of genius.:salude

You're behaving like an internet jackass. You're simply in denial of a simple truth. Magnet changing significantly impacts tone, and in many instances it's what the doctor ordered. Have you been to the Duncan forum yet? Speaking of doctors, I can give you the names of some excellent psychotherapists.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
You're behaving like an internet jackass. You're simply in denial of a simple truth. Magnet changing significantly impacts tone, and in many instances it's what the doctor ordered. Have you been to the Duncan forum yet? Speaking of doctors, I can give you the names of some excellent psychotherapists.

Who's in denial? You knew nothing about magnets or pickups and it is obvious that you didn't swap magnets and are just parroting shit you read on a forum. There is no magnet that only effects treble. As I said, what magnet? You claim a perfect tone chain yet single out the magnet as the problem. You are full of it, pal and I don't believe a word from your ignorant internet wanna be self. You are a fool.
 

357mag

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
22
Who's in denial? You knew nothing about magnets or pickups and it is obvious that you didn't swap magnets and are just parroting shit you read on a forum. There is no magnet that only effects treble. As I said, what magnet? You claim a perfect tone chain yet single out the magnet as the problem. You are full of it, pal and I don't believe a word from your ignorant internet wanna be self. You are a fool.

The theme is you can swap magnets to modify the tone of your pickup. It's cheap, fast, and easy. You are in denial saying it should not be done and that is is bullshit. Go to the Duncan forum Big FatAss Al and tell them that what they're doing is bullshit. Tell them they don't know what they're talking about. It's an easy fix and it's way better than monkeying with a stupid tone control which dulls all six of your strings.

Talk to your therapist. I've got much more important things to do then engage in a idiotic argument with a moron like you.
 

grimlyflick

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
1,276
It's an easy fix and it's way better than monkeying with a stupid tone control which dulls all six of your strings.

You must one crazy ass tone control if performing a magnet swap is easier than a small tone knob tweak on either your guitar or amp.
:laugh2:

I think the point Big Al was trying to make before the name calling started was there may be a far easier solution to your problem somewhere else in your signal chain before resorting to magnet swaps.

And regardless of who started the name calling, your 2nd post states you have no intention of attempting a magnet swap as it “sounds like an involved and tricky process”, but 19 days later after reading the Duncan forum “it’s an easy fix”.

Calm down and take time to read the replies and process them before resorting to cheap name calling and everyone stays friends.
:salude
 

WytLytnyn

New member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Messages
88
OP: Are you using the original pots and caps? Have you thought of installing a 50s wiring harness?
 
Top