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New Duane Allman Clone Pups from Wizz

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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Hot? High output, overwound? Love that Allman tone. Anything that gets you there is a good thang! :hank
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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The measurements I have for Duane's Cherryburst are: 8.21k Neck & 7.46k Bridge. These are the pickups that were originally in the `57 Goldtop.
I have the Darkburst reading at: 8.31k Neck & 9.04k Bridge(this is how they were after Kurt flipped positions). This is what they measured the last night of the Brothers Beacon show in Oct. 2014.
The PAF's in the Goldtop are what were originally in the Cherryburst I believe.. I'd have to ask as I know when the guitar was found it needed some help.
 

TM1

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Hot? High output, overwound? Love that Allman tone. Anything that gets you there is a good thang! :hank

I know both Derek & Warren said there's something a little more special about the Darkburst vs. the CB & GT.
I know Derek has one of Duane's 50 watt heads.
 

duaneflowers

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Aug 13, 2013
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Hot? High output, overwound? Love that Allman tone. Anything that gets you there is a good thang! :hank

There are two sets being offered... the Hot 'Lanta Set and the Layla/Fillmore Set. The 'Lantas are definitely hotttt... with DCs of about 8.7k and 8.3k.


The measurements I have for Duane's Cherryburst are: 8.21k Neck & 7.46k Bridge. These are the pickups that were originally in the `57 Goldtop.
I have the Darkburst reading at: 8.31k Neck & 9.04k Bridge(this is how they were after Kurt flipped positions). This is what they measured the last night of the Brothers Beacon show in Oct. 2014.
The PAF's in the Goldtop are what were originally in the Cherryburst I believe.. I'd have to ask as I know when the guitar was found it needed some help.

Interesting! Where did you get those readings for the CB? The readings I have are 6.97k in the neck and 7.04k. I don't know all the technicalities but I think that since those pickups came out of a '57 Goldtop they would've had fatter wire in them and winding them to 8.21k would have been pretty difficult. When Gibson Custom had the CB in for replication they opted for Underwound #3 Custom Buckers with an average DC reading of 7k, which was closer to what was found on '57 Goldtops at the time... but again, who knows? The only consistency about Gibson is/was their inconsistency. :spabout

Interesting read about the trials and tribulations of the Goldtop after Duane sold it here...

I know both Derek & Warren said there's something a little more special about the Darkburst vs. the CB & GT.
I know Derek has one of Duane's 50 watt heads.

I've heard the same... and it seems Duane was also over the moon with the Darkburst... too bad there are so few recordings of it... the ones I've heard are way punchier and brighter than the Cherry... making it even more difficult to differentiate between Duane and Dickey at times...
 

Big Al

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AFAIK 57 PAF and pre decal employed the same PE 42 gauge wire as all PAF's as it was already in use on the P90's in the 50's. So I don't understand the thicker wire thing.

Resistance readings are just that, a measure of the total resistance of the coils and not output. A static reading of the pickups resistance at rest. It changes with temperature and other variables.

I had a pair of hot sounding PAFs without covers that both had resistance readings below 7k around 6.7k IIRC. Buck Sulcer grabbed 'em up from me and agreed, they sounded powerful and clear.
 

duaneflowers

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AFAIK 57 PAF and pre decal employed the same PE 42 gauge wire as all PAF's as it was already in use on the P90's in the 50's. So I don't understand the thicker wire thing.

Resistance readings are just that, a measure of the total resistance of the coils and not output. A static reading of the pickups resistance at rest. It changes with temperature and other variables.

I had a pair of hot sounding PAFs without covers that both had resistance readings below 7k around 6.7k IIRC. Buck Sulcer grabbed 'em up from me and agreed, they sounded powerful and clear.

I don't know if the wire was thicker or the coating (or just the inconsistencies in both that made it fatter) but that was always my understanding... and as usual, I could be wrong. Maybe someone more in the know can clarify...

You are absolutely right about the resistance reading having so little to do with the final output... there are just so many variables at play. Its too bad so many pickups are 'measured' by that alone. Of course, it plays a part, but its not the whole picture. The Wizz Fillmores are both about 7k and they feel just as strong as the 'Lantas (which read so much higher). The only true measure is the ears of the listener and they tell me I play louder than I used to... but I ain't having any of that... :rofl
 

Big Al

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I don't know if the wire was thicker or the coating (or just the inconsistencies in both that made it fatter) but that was always my understanding... and as usual, I could be wrong. Maybe someone more in the know can clarify...

You are absolutely right about the resistance reading having so little to do with the final output... there are just so many variables at play. Its too bad so many pickups are 'measured' by that alone. Of course, it plays a part, but its not the whole picture. The Wizz Fillmores are both about 7k and they feel just as strong as the 'Lantas (which read so much higher). The only true measure is the ears of the listener and they tell me I play louder than I used to... but I ain't having any of that... :rofl

I hear you brother! The resistance measure has nothing to do with output and is not an output, that is the coils reacting to the vibrating string within the magnetic field generates a current as output. The resitant load stays the same.

The wire size or the diameter is measured by gauge. The insulation type determines the overall diameter. Plain enamel is the thinnest followed by polysol and heavy formvar. In general all 42 ga plain enamel wire should be the same thickness but the wire can be stretched out thinner when manufactured but not thicker AFAIK. Thinner wire will have higher resistance.

I do like pickups that dupe Duanes and Dickies tone, all of them! And thanks for the heads up.:hank
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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8,349
There are two sets being offered... the Hot 'Lanta Set and the Layla/Fillmore Set. The 'Lantas are definitely hotttt... with DCs of about 8.7k and 8.3k.




Interesting! Where did you get those readings for the CB? The readings I have are 6.97k in the neck and 7.04k. I don't know all the technicalities but I think that since those pickups came out of a '57 Goldtop they would've had fatter wire in them and winding them to 8.21k would have been pretty difficult. When Gibson Custom had the CB in for replication they opted for Underwound #3 Custom Buckers with an average DC reading of 7k, which was closer to what was found on '57 Goldtops at the time... but again, who knows? The only consistency about Gibson is/was their inconsistency. :spabout

Interesting read about the trials and tribulations of the Goldtop after Duane sold it here...



I've heard the same... and it seems Duane was also over the moon with the Darkburst... too bad there are so few recordings of it... the ones I've heard are way punchier and brighter than the Cherry... making it even more difficult to differentiate between Duane and Dickey at times...

I got them from Steve Morris's tech who set them up before the final shows. Alan Paul gave them to me.
 

Hamerfan

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Dec 20, 2004
Messages
791
The thicker wire comes from the way the wire is made. The gear that is used tend to enlarge the diameter due material loss in the gear by friction. So the wire get thicker until the point the workers change the tools to new ones.
I work in a steel selling company. We sell tubes like we buy them, by weight. But our customers don't except that and only pay the length with a fixed price. So we have constantly differences because the wall thickness of the tubes changes with every shipment.
 
Last edited:

PaulLaRue

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Jul 2, 2003
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268
If you ask me, the Cherry Burst is the tone monster not 'Hot Lanta'.
Pick up output is irrelevant here, Duane used his ears not a multimeter.

[We can dissect Duane's guitar in another thread].

If Duane used Hot Lanta to record with it may have been Blue Sky or Stand Back from "Eat a Peach" but I don't have the studio recording dates in front of me?
Duane received Hot Lanta in June of 71, after the March Fillmore East recordings.

I just don't buy all this talk of Duane's hotter, high output desire when his sound was very mild compared to the Les Paul / Marshall tone back then.
If Duane so desired this high gain tone, why didn't he use it?
I too read that "Duane wanted all the gain he could get".
All I hear is a nice warm over driven tone at times, no high gain Marshall distortion at all anywhere on any recording.

The recording of the Fillmore East closing in June of 71 I tought Duanes guitar sounded thinner, then I remembered he was most likely using the SG for slide [if not then it was 'Hot Lanta].
Does the standard tuned Hot Lanta [recorded at the Fillmore closing in June] sound as good as the Cherry Burst from the March"At Fillmore East" recording...I don't think so.
No contest there.The Cherry Burst had all the fine qualities associated with vintage bursts.

I never read anything about Duane being over the moon with Hot Lanta?
If you did, then please share it.
He loved the figured top that's all.

Duane was also using the SG more & more in late 71 for his slide work. "Stand Back" possibly?
I'm not sure Hot Lanta was even used to record the few [if any] tracks he laid down on Eat a Peach?
While Hot Lanta is the beauty, his cherry burst is the Holy Grail. For me anyway...
 

duaneflowers

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Aug 13, 2013
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If you ask me, the Cherry Burst is the tone monster not 'Hot Lanta'.
Pick up output is irrelevant here, Duane used his ears not a multimeter.

[We can dissect Duane's guitar in another thread].

If Duane used Hot Lanta to record with it may have been Blue Sky or Stand Back from "Eat a Peach" but I don't have the studio recording dates in front of me?
Duane received Hot Lanta in June of 71, after the March Fillmore East recordings.

I just don't buy all this talk of Duane's hotter, high output desire when his sound was very mild compared to the Les Paul / Marshall tone back then.
If Duane so desired this high gain tone, why didn't he use it?
I too read that "Duane wanted all the gain he could get".
All I hear is a nice warm over driven tone at times, no high gain Marshall distortion at all anywhere on any recording.

The recording of the Fillmore East closing in June of 71 I tought Duanes guitar sounded thinner, then I remembered he was most likely using the SG for slide [if not then it was 'Hot Lanta].
Does the standard tuned Hot Lanta [recorded at the Fillmore closing in June] sound as good as the Cherry Burst from the March"At Fillmore East" recording...I don't think so.
No contest there.The Cherry Burst had all the fine qualities associated with vintage bursts.

I never read anything about Duane being over the moon with Hot Lanta?
If you did, then please share it.
He loved the figured top that's all.

Duane was also using the SG more & more in late 71 for his slide work. "Stand Back" possibly?
I'm not sure Hot Lanta was even used to record the few [if any] tracks he laid down on Eat a Peach?
While Hot Lanta is the beauty, his cherry burst is the Holy Grail. For me anyway...

AFAIK when Duane got 'Lanta he completely stopped using the Cherry Burst... including studio work... that is a pretty good indication of which sounded best to him and I really doubt it was because he liked the way it looked. Most likely it was more due to touch sensitivity, subtle overtones, responsiveness to his playing style, and whatever other subjective factors that you wouldn't be able to discern by looking at the guitar or listening to audience recordings that led him to prefer it.

I agree that 'Lanta does sound 'thinner' because the PAFs in 59s sounded thinner than the fatter PAF sound of the '57s (which is what was in the Cherry Burst) but in that thinness is greater articulation, separation and IMHO more chime. Were 'Lanta's recordings engineered the way the Fillmore recordings were that thinness would've been compensated for as were most '59 PAF recordings.

Just my dos centavos...
 

PaulLaRue

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Jul 2, 2003
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Does anyone know for sure what "studio work" Duane did with Hot Lanta?
Songs,Tracks?
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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14,537
The thicker wire comes from the way the wire is made. The gear that is used tend to enlarge the diameter due material loss in the gear by friction. So the wire get thicker until the point the workers change the tools to new ones.
I work in a steel selling company. We sell tubes like we buy them, by weight. But our customers don't except that and only pay the length with a fixed price. So we have constantly differences because the wall thickness of the tubes changes with every shipment.

Drawn wire to specific size is the spec. 42 gauge. Buyers are buying 42gauge and not 41 gauge. Often the wire was checked with a micrometer and as in any manufacturing process there may be some drift, but this is a specific spec made to function in a specific set of parameters. The size or diameter of 42gauge wire may show some small drifting from spool to spool but I haven;t seen anything indicating a thicker gauge wire on PAF pickups. The most common deviation was for thinner wire from stretching in the manufacturing process. I worked with Seymour Duncan in the 70's and learned a lot about pickups and there components from him. He was a freak for measuring every little detail of any pickup he could and has an extensive library of these specs.

No one has ever detailed the pickups in Duanes stock Humbuckers as far as I know. Are you just assuming something or do you know something about this guitar or it's pickups? Only thing I know for sure is Brother Duane made it sing and cry.
 

Pellman73

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Aug 9, 2016
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PSA: Anyone wanting to release their inner Duane (the other one) might want to have a look at the new Duane Allman pups announced today from Wizz... they are hotttttttt!!! :salude

http://www.wizz-pickups.net/signature-series-pickups

duane do you have them?

My only reservation for not putting them in my duane 2003 hotlanta is, well... the guitar is worth a pretty good chunk of change and I"m a little worried that monkeying with it and making it "not stock" could decrease the value. I guess even if I put the original (I think they are burstbuckers) back in if I ever had to sell it perhaps it wouldn't matter.

and I say "had to sell" because I really don't anticipate ever wanting to actually sell it.
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
Drawn wire to specific size is the spec. 42 gauge. Buyers are buying 42gauge and not 41 gauge. Often the wire was checked with a micrometer and as in any manufacturing process there may be some drift, but this is a specific spec made to function in a specific set of parameters. The size or diameter of 42gauge wire may show some small drifting from spool to spool but I haven;t seen anything indicating a thicker gauge wire on PAF pickups. The most common deviation was for thinner wire from stretching in the manufacturing process. I worked with Seymour Duncan in the 70's and learned a lot about pickups and there components from him. He was a freak for measuring every little detail of any pickup he could and has an extensive library of these specs.

No one has ever detailed the pickups in Duanes stock Humbuckers as far as I know. Are you just assuming something or do you know something about this guitar or it's pickups? Only thing I know for sure is Brother Duane made it sing and cry.

I use a really sharp pencil to draw wire.

I may look at these. The last set of his I looked at (thanks DEWAAAAAANE!) were so expensive I would have had to pawn a kidney and my left nut.
 

duaneflowers

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duane do you have them?

My only reservation for not putting them in my duane 2003 hotlanta is, well... the guitar is worth a pretty good chunk of change and I"m a little worried that monkeying with it and making it "not stock" could decrease the value. I guess even if I put the original (I think they are burstbuckers) back in if I ever had to sell it perhaps it wouldn't matter.

and I say "had to sell" because I really don't anticipate ever wanting to actually sell it.

I've had both sets for several weeks now and they ain't goin' nowhere... several sets have been in and out of those guitars (Allman Sigs) but I've kept the originals so that they can be returned to stock if need be. They sound awesome and make me want to play more... which is what matters most to me. :salude
 

Pellman73

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Aug 9, 2016
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I've had both sets for several weeks now and they ain't goin' nowhere... several sets have been in and out of those guitars (Allman Sigs) but I've kept the originals so that they can be returned to stock if need be. They sound awesome and make me want to play more... which is what matters most to me. :salude

Duane-san

you exert much influence from so far away

ren how close is your finger to the trigger

im getting closer
 
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