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Bad Betty, an early attempt of a 50's Reissue??

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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Hey, some of the long time members may have remembered me posting about Bad Betty, a 70's era flametop I got when I was at Gibson Kalamazoo, in 1978.

It has a three piece Mahogany neck, small headstock with Norlin Logo and no volute, with a full round 59 neck profile. The neck shape is identical to the average 59 and is not so fat as the newer R9's.

It has the proper red tortoise side dots and thin fingerboard binding but has the standard 70's perimeter binding, wide in the cutaway. It has the right body shape and has the early 70's modified long tenon which ends at the pickup cavity and is visable along the front edge of the pickup rout.

It has a two piece top of awesome Maple which has lots of flash and movement. It actually looks like completely different tops from different angles. There is a thin maple layer sandwiched between top and body visable in the routs.

The top carve is Norlin Dome, she has an ABR1 bridge and all hardware was Gold when I got it as it had a stock Viceroy Brown Finish which allways came with gold hardware. I've never seen another Standard in this finish.

Here are some shots.
2544_p34878.jpeg
2544_p34879.jpeg


She has a 1978 serial# that was stamped over the inked on number it originaly had. Gibson stamped the number into the back of the headstock for inventory reasons as it was marked for destruction at the plant and the only way I could buy it was if they stamped a new number into the headstock. It was also stamped "SECOND" so I could buy it. All I know for sure is that it was made some years earlier, and most probably for Strings and Things.

It is a wonderful guitar and though not particularly authentic to 50's specs at the time it was very cool, and still is.
 
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Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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You have no idea!!!

Ken Killman wanted that guitar sawn up and burnt!! Seymor Duncan and Jim Lombard lobbied Marv Lamb in my behalf, and after much liquid intake we went back to the factory where Marv agreed to sell it to me.

I really love that guitar. It represents a really good time in my life, and was used on literaly thousands of gigs.
 

Crunchyriff

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Dec 1, 2001
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Al that is a great story, and one beaut of a guitar. I like that top.

BTW, Hope this note finds you on the horizon of new, cool job prospects, bro.

What p'ups is Bad Betty wearing?
 

Red Baron

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Jul 14, 2004
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Accurate to 50's specs or not, I love that guitar Big Al ...one of the nicest I've ever seen.
 

fretwire

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May 21, 2003
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That guitar has a very hansome top for that era. But I don't understand, why did they want it destroyed? Oh, and what's the story on the pups. Were they just pulled from the parts bins of that era or were they too something special?
 

Ed Driscoll

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Apr 24, 2002
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Al,

A while back, you talked about having Bad Betty cleaned up and restored after all of the hard gigging you've done with it. Has that happened? Are those new shots? Either way--great looking axe!

Ed
 

jcs

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Oct 31, 2001
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i love the color and the way it blends,and the beautiful wood on top!

how heavy is she?
 

moonweasel

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Jan 20, 2004
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Breathtaking, so cool that you saved her from certain destruction too. Thats a "keep forever" guitar for sure.
 

Brudr

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Apr 9, 2002
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A keeper for sure. Hey Big Al, what were the frets like/are on that thing? My 78 Standard was the first "real "guitar I ever purchased. I'd still be playing her if it weren't for the horrible flat fretwire that came on the late 70's Standards.
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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that is one cool looking guitar Big Al. Very special with that story behind it too.

Y'oughta get one o' them protector cases for her.
 

GeeJay

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Sep 11, 2001
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Cool Lester Al :yay

Your last post says she 'was' used for thousands of gigs. Do you still have her and is that a recent pic? Oops! already asked by Ed, still a good question though I guess :)
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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I'll try and answer all the questions.

She came stock with patent sticker T Tops.

I still have her and will keep her till the grave I think. There is way to much mojo attached to that particular guitar, in my case anyway.

I asked for a Protector case when I got her and still have it.

She also had speed knobs when I got her, and a thick black plastic truss rod cover without the white edge, which I still have.

There is a small surface crack in the wood between the treble volume and tone pot. That is the reason that the person who it was made for sent it back. That is also the reason it was supposed to be destroyed. Ken Killman did not want that guitar sold because he did not want a flametop 50's type standard out there. He really disliked all the attention and demand for Gibson to make them like they used to, and felt that the present day Standard was good enough.
Curiosly, from my point of view, while I was there I saw racks of bookmatched flametop Standards that were to be sent to Japan, and no amount of begging or pleading would get them to sell me one. When I asked if I could special order one,(as I managed Castle Music in Santa Barbara and was a Gibson dealer), I was flatly told no.

I have gotten it in playing order but I want to restore her to her original splendor.
New Gold hardware. I have everything but the single ring gold Klusons she came with. The frets are worn down to nuthin' and are merely flat bands of metal at this point. She had the typical Gibson Jumbo frets but I will most likely refret with 6100's as I like the big stuff.

She has a real nice pair of 57 Classics from my 99 R9 in her now and they suit her well.

The back has some minor wear, but the natural filler has turned a dull gray and looks like ass. The Mahogany has a really nice grain and there is the coolest purple mineral streak in the back that I like alot. I most likely will have the back reshot with a walnut pore filler, natural finish.

The top has a severe ding and some other finish damage, minor but if I could find someone who could duplicate the original Viceroy Brown I think I would have the whole guitar refinished.

The delema for me has been, do I put her back stock, slightly modify her or go all out and finish the job Gibson started and make her more 50's appropiate. I have a couple of sweet R9's so I'm leaning towards stock restoration as she is very unusual and represents a pretty rare bird.

Next time I work on her I'll photo all the cool stuff. Cavities, tenon ect.

Thanks for letting me share my special gal with you all. She really means alot to me.
 

Wilko

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Big Al said:
Ken Killman did not want that guitar sold because he did not want a flametop 50's type standard out there. He really disliked all the attention and demand for Gibson to make them like they used to, and felt that the present day Standard was good enough.

That is some seriously flawed business sense.
Companies spend millions just to find out how to better please or expand their customer base. they seek out info like a demand that may be profitable or even an upsell like the bookmatched top.

What an a-hole! Now look what history has proved, it's their bigeest single success in their entire history. the gdarn flagship.
 

GlassSnuff

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Jan 30, 2002
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I have a similar guitar - similar in personal meaning and mojo, anyway. I say do the mods. Make her yours. Sure, she'd look good in a glass case all restored as an example of rare Gibsonia, but...


she'd get lonely.
 

tulk1

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Nov 21, 2003
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For what my opinion counts ($0.00) I'd leave as is, except for maybe the frets. The rest of it is battle scars and adds to the mystique of an already mysterious guitar. And if the redone color didn't come out just perfect, you'd kick your own a** for doing it. Refret, then leave it.
 

Crunchyriff

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Dec 1, 2001
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As Wilko notes, BigAl has casually highlighted some of the traits of a purely bone-headed company that cares more about what IT wants to do vs. what the customer wants or desires.

I think a big telling point in their 'marketing strategy' is that they have specially made products for a specific, foreign market (Japan). And that market knows their stuff, and holds the mfg. acountable to the highest standards possible. If they fail, the products are rejected and sent back, period.

So they peddle units of lesser-tier workmanship to their native countrymen, and take particular care to cater to the overseas clients.

HEAR WHAT THAT SAYS ABOUT WHAT GIBSON THINKS ABOUT US??


This in itself is an insult to the Amercian consumer; yet one that has been partially earned. If we are stupid enough to pay $2.5k and up for an inferior product (or at least of inferior workmanship fit, & finish), they will be more than happy to oblige.

I say we start sending their crap back to them, and accept nothing less than the kind of attention to detail, and meeting the customers wants; that they bend over backwards to do for the Japanese.

Once again Al, very cool guitar...blems and all.
 
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MikeSlub

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Jul 15, 2001
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Big Al: I love that guitar! I have always loved that guitar! Whatever you decide to do to it in restoration, do NOT refinish the top! It will never come out that awesome Viceroy Brown color ever again! :dude :2zone :wail

P.S. Did I say that I love that guitar? :lolspin
 
K

Kim R

Guest
BigAl,

I have refinished one Les Paul that I really loved. The work was flawless and absolutely done to order. The guitar was pretty stunning, and it was also changed forever, not only in appearance but in it's voice. Brand-new yet very thin nitro is still new. The guitar will sound a little like it's wearing a glove.

Since I'm no longer a kid and really don't plan on leaving someone else some shiny trophies that they'll not appreciate in the manner that I did, I've decided that my players are going to get older with me. Project guitars and tinker units: They get messed with constantly.

That is a unique and special LP. I suggest that you make sonic/functional upgrades only.

Best,
 
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