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Valuable information to consider when evaluating the authenticity of a vintage burst

Ted Nugent

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
79
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

It IS true... Why would I lie about it? Terry wants to buy the guitar and has made me a very reasonable offer (as Tom will confirm). In other words he is putting his money where his mouth is. If it wasn't such a fabulous guitar to play, I would have bitten his arm off days ago..!! :hank

Take his money. I suspect it’s the best offer you’ll get. But then again, didn’t Tom say you have a better offer from someone else? Yeah a good replica might run to $10k but that’s for a good replica. IMHO the case is the most valuable thing in this whole deal, as long as the case doesn’t smell of barf like you said the guitar that does?
 

Zapper

Active member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

:bigal
:photos or it DIDN'T HAPPEN

Lemme guess :hmm It's TRUE, but you testified in writing to Tom & Terry that you'd NEVER EVER show ANYONE the pics :rolleyes:

I promised him by email. Seems perfectly sensible to me... why give away your trade secrets so that a) others can use them, b) fraudsters can abuse them...?!
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

I understand that this "colleague" was a certain Mr Harris, who earlier today you described as a "convicted fraudster" (post 463). He was apparently trying to extort more money out of Gareth to put the valuation in writing (!). He refused and unfortunately upset said "fraudster". Given that someone on this thread recently valued a 'good replica' at about £10,000, the ridiculous figure of £300 is clearly a vindictive joke...

I sent loads of photos and information to Gary tonight so let's wait and see what he says...

I’ve amended that post, as PH has not in fact been convicted of fraud, unlike the other two mentioned. As for what Gary would say from any further photos you might have sent, I’m pretty sure he’s made his opinion known in my earlier post, as well as his opinion of you and Gareth in private.

Did Gareth take his ‘56 Les Paul Goldtop’ to Phil Harris that day also?

5NN0IE9.jpg


‘56 Goldtop’ headstock on the left, and OP’s ‘60 Les Paul’ on the right:

edgwzw8.jpg


Did he get an opinion on that too?

As a quick recap- Joe Bonamassa, JJ Blair, John M, Richard Henry, Phil Harris and Gary Winterflood have all stated online and off that this is steaming pile of shite, and who have collectively played/handled/owned/brokered/sold the fair balance of all genuine sunburst Les Pauls between them.......vs YOU? You should empty the contents of that legit Cali Girl case into a skip and focus your considerable imagination on writing detective novels for children.
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,744
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

I promised him by email. Seems perfectly sensible to me... why give away your trade secrets so that a) others can use them, b) fraudsters can abuse them...?!

Bull.
Almost all of the important tells ARE in the open, has been for many years. And your ehrm ...guitar... has shown in numerous ways where it didn't come from :ganz
 

Ken Fortunato

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
2,742
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Ian, before you do another thing, call a lawyer... I wouldn't want you to make this situation any worse than it already is...
 

Ted Nugent

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
79
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Bull.
Almost all of the important tells ARE in the open, has been for many years. And your ehrm ...guitar... has shown in numerous ways where it didn't come from :ganz

The real smoking gun IMO is that Terry claims there’s a ‘secret’ smoking gun ‘tell’ he won’t reveal. Sounds exactly like Ganzler talking. Remember the ‘In Ganz We Trust’ mantra all the suck asses used to use? And that’s how confidence tricksters operate. ‘Trust me I’m a doctor’.

Zzzzz.
 

Stoj

Active member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
3,514
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Is this post still going :bigal

Jeez as bad as self isolation has been this thread has been a car crash :dh

I still don't understand why it's still in the Vintage section ? it's clearly a fake, I wouldn't even call it a replica :rolleyes:
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,744
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

The real smoking gun IMO is that Terry claims there’s a ‘secret’ smoking gun ‘tell’ he won’t reveal. Sounds exactly like Ganzler talking. Remember the ‘In Ganz We Trust’ mantra all the suck asses used to use? And that’s how confidence tricksters operate. ‘Trust me I’m a doctor’.

Zzzzz.

Yup, that whole mantra was consummate.
 
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S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,744
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Is this post still going :bigal

Jeez as bad as self isolation has been this thread has been a car crash :dh

I still don't understand why it's still in the Vintage section ? it's clearly a fake, I wouldn't even call it a replica :rolleyes:

Because Tom still think it's legit ..:ganz
Edit: Maybe at least that's good for this thread's entertainment value / artistic impression :)
 

Zapper

Active member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

I’ve amended that post, as PH has not in fact been convicted of fraud, unlike the other two mentioned. As for what Gary would say from any further photos you might have sent, I’m pretty sure he’s made his opinion known in my earlier post, as well as his opinion of you and Gareth in private.

Did Gareth take his ‘56 Les Paul Goldtop’ to Phil Harris that day also?

5NN0IE9.jpg


‘56 Goldtop’ headstock on the left, and OP’s ‘60 Les Paul’ on the right:

edgwzw8.jpg


Did he get an opinion on that too?

As a quick recap- Joe Bonamassa, JJ Blair, John M, Richard Henry, Phil Harris and Gary Winterflood have all stated online and off that this is steaming pile of shite, and who have collectively played/handled/owned/brokered/sold the fair balance of all genuine sunburst Les Pauls between them.......vs YOU? You should empty the contents of that legit Cali Girl case into a skip and focus your considerable imagination on writing detective novels for children.

So you're admitting you got your facts wrong then? I have no idea whether Gareth showed him any other guitars. He did however vow never to go anywhere near him again. As in fact did I about 30 years ago, when I asked him to look at a pre-CBS Strat for me. He told me this was wrong and that was wrong but admitted that it WAS a genuine Strat. He told me though that it was worth about £2,000 absolute TOPS and that he would buy it if I wanted to sell. Thinking back, he didn't give me anything in writing then either.... I wonder why?! Unfortunately I was too green & fresh faced to ask for some written evidence. My gut feel at the time though was that it was worth considerably more on account of the original Fiesta Red finish so I advertised it in LOOT instead (oh for the good ol' days..!). I priced it rather optimistically at £4,000 and within the week had sold it (to a guy from Belgium) for.... guess what... £4,000. By an incredible co-incidence though, the Belgian guy then took it to Harris the next day for his appraisal (I didn't tell him I'd been there too a few weeks earlier...!). And guess what, Harris told him that a load of other stuff was apparently wrong with it, to such an extent that the guy (quite reasonably) wanted some of his money back...! So there ya go.... caveat emptor.... especially with Mr Harris around.

Incidentally, how can you possibly compare the front of one headstock with the back of another..?! In any event, they look nothing like each other..!
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Is this post still going :bigal

Jeez as bad as self isolation has been this thread has been a car crash :dh

I still don't understand why it's still in the Vintage section ? it's clearly a fake, I wouldn't even call it a replica :rolleyes:

I think this has been one of the all time classic LPF threads, with many heavy hitters, compelling twists and turns, upsets and reveals and has been highly educational for all, and I think harkens to the days when you knew the LPF held the most potent concentration of experience, wisdom and also vocal veracity :dude:

Yes, this horse has been flogged to foam- but we keep getting handed bigger and bigger clubs to do so :hmm
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

So you're admitting you got your facts wrong then? I have no idea whether Gareth showed him any other guitars. He did however vow never to go anywhere near him again. As in fact did I about 30 years ago, when I asked him to look at a pre-CBS Strat for me. He told me this was wrong and that was wrong but admitted that it WAS a genuine Strat. He told me though that it was worth about £2,000 absolute TOPS and that he would buy it if I wanted to sell. Thinking back, he didn't give me anything in writing then either.... I wonder why?! Unfortunately I was too green & fresh faced to ask for some written evidence. My gut feel at the time though was that it was worth considerably more on account of the original Fiesta Red finish so I advertised it in LOOT instead (oh for the good ol' days..!). I priced it rather optimistically at £4,000 and within the week had sold it (to a guy from Belgium) for.... guess what... £4,000. By an incredible co-incidence though, the Belgian guy then took it to Harris the next day for his appraisal (I didn't tell him I'd been there too a few weeks earlier...!). And guess what, Harris told him that a load of other stuff was apparently wrong with it, to such an extent that the guy (quite reasonably) wanted some of his money back...! So there ya go.... caveat emptor.... especially with Mr Harris around.

Incidentally, how can you possibly compare the front of one headstock with the back of another..?! In any event, they look nothing like each other..!

Ian, dude- it’s over. You did amazingly well, really remarkably well with what you had to work with, up against the worldwide Burst community whom you had not an inkling would be publicly crushing you and your guitar to dust, and we’ve all really enjoyed it, but this is silly now.
There’s also not a dealer or vintage Les Paul enthusiast in the UK or US who now doesn’t know your and Gareth’s names and the high end guitars you hold between you :rolleyes

You’ve maintained commendable good humour through all this, and you should absolutely sell it to Terry Mueller immediately so you actually get something out of it all.

I’d name this the ‘Corona Burst’, as it most likely originated in Asia, causes intense but brief confusion and distress and is highly contagious.
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,744
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Ian, dude- it’s over. You did amazingly well, really remarkably well with what you had to work with, up against the worldwide Burst community whom you had not an inkling would be publicly crushing you and your guitar to dust, and we’ve all really enjoyed it, but this is silly now.
There’s also not a dealer or vintage Les Paul enthusiast in the UK or US who now doesn’t know your and Gareth’s names and the high end guitars you hold between you :rolleyes

You’ve maintained commendable good humour through all this, and you should absolutely sell it to Terry Mueller immediately so you actually get something out of it all.

I’d name this the ‘Corona Burst’, as it most likely originated in Asia, causes intense but brief confusion and distress and is highly contagious.
:lol ^^ The Corona wannabe burst right?

Jumping@shadows, wasn't your pic of the "56" GT and 0-2453 meant to compare the moustaches?
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

:lol ^^ The Corona wannabe burst right?

Jumping, wasn't your pic of the "56" GT and 0-2453 meant to compare the moustaches?

Yes indeed- both wonky AF, almost as if they were made by the same guy :wow

Anyway, I’m off to work! Another sunny day in lockdown :salude
 

Zapper

Active member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Ian, before you do another thing, call a lawyer... I wouldn't want you to make this situation any worse than it already is...

Call a lawyer what..? Expensive?! :hee
 

I don't recall

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Messages
9
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Then show us the magic pics, from which even YOU with your untrained eyes, can guess the secret telltale :rolleyes
Ditto...
Theres no smoking gun pictures to a home made guitar. Not Luthier quality. Only thing magical about this transaction was when the money vanished.
 

Zapper

Active member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Ian, dude- it’s over. You did amazingly well, really remarkably well with what you had to work with, up against the worldwide Burst community whom you had not an inkling would be publicly crushing you and your guitar to dust, and we’ve all really enjoyed it, but this is silly now.
There’s also not a dealer or vintage Les Paul enthusiast in the UK or US who now doesn’t know your and Gareth’s names and the high end guitars you hold between you :rolleyes

You’ve maintained commendable good humour through all this, and you should absolutely sell it to Terry Mueller immediately so you actually get something out of it all.

I’d name this the ‘Corona Burst’, as it most likely originated in Asia, causes intense but brief confusion and distress and is highly contagious.

Ok I admit it... 'Corona Burst' is actually quite amusing..! But what flavour Corona (ask yer Mum)? If it does turn out to be a dud then presumably 'Lemon'...

And why has no-one yet dared to answer my post #553 and managed to come up with a 'back-of-the-envelope' worst case number for me? No-one here any good at maffs (or Math as you yanks call it..!)? Would be nice to know if I can afford to eat tonight or not.... :spabout
 
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Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Ok I admit it... 'Corona Burst' is actually quite amusing..! But what flavour Corona (ask yer Mum)? If it does turn out to be a dud then presumably 'Lemon'...

And why has no-one yet dared to answer my post #553 and managed to come up with a 'back-of-the-envelope' worst case number for me? No-one here any good at maffs..?! Would be nice to know if I can afford to eat tonight.... :spabout

Tell us what Terry Mueller’s offer was- he’s your expert and explicitly knows this guitar better than anyone else in the world, and is the long time confidant of Tom Wittrock one of the most famous and established Burst collectors in the community, who will have an exhaustive knowledge of prices/values going back almost 50 years to guide him?

You could also go with the one for *£300* you’ve already been given after a professional appraisal when your best mate took this to Phil Harris two years ago before you started this ‘aw gee gosh! I just dun got an old red and yellow geetar, what do you guys think of it?’, thread? Gareth also sent various photos to Richard Henry back in October/November, who told him it’s complete garbage and the only value is in the case.
 
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