Here is my untouched 1967,all original parts.
It's worth noting that the body shapes shown in the diagram that I posted earlier are not set in stone—i.e., each one depicted is "approximate." Alternately stated, within each individual shape, there can be a fair amount of variation from guitar to guitar, and guitars exist that are anomalous for a given approximate shape. The same goes for the position of the crown inlays on these guitars' headstocks.Thanks a lot for the very informative thread, I am just trying to date my late '60s ES-335 and would appreciate your feedback on what type of body shape it has: pointy-cutaways one (until '67) or the rounder one ('68/'69).
zorglub!, going by the specs list and headstock photo that you just posted, my revised guess would be that your guitar is a '66. If, as you said, the serial number indicates either '66 or '69.... well, the guitar is clearly not a '69—so the serial number would then point to '66. The position of the crown inlay in your above photo, although hardly an infallible method of dating these guitars, also indicates '66. All of the other specs you gave, as well, are certainly consistent with 1966. So, I would say your guitar is a '66 with added stop tailpiece, changed tuners, and (probably) changed knobs. Note that I think the knobs are replacements not so much because they don't happen to be "witch hats" (on which subject, an earlier reply to this thread suggests that witch-hat knobs did not appear on these guitars until 1967), but more because they do not appear to be the correct color of reflector knob for this model of guitar—i.e., if the original knobs on your guitar were indeed reflectors, then they should have been gold, rather than black. As for the guitar's pickguard being the variant with the narrower bevel.... perhaps your guitar is a late(r)-'66? That's about as specific a guess as I could take.vintage58, thanks again for the great thread and feedback. Here you have a compilation of all details I think might be useful to date my guitar, together with the pic of the headstock you asked for.
- Serial number indicates '66 or '69
- Converted from trapeze to stop tailpiece
- Gibson logo has dot on "i" (through '68?, or '70 and on), and "b" and "o" are open (through '69)
- No volute is pre '70
- One piece neck is pre '70
- Narrow fretboard (1 9/16") started in '66 and lasted till '69
- Headstock angle is 14º, which started in '66
- Narrow f-holes
- "Union made" orange label
- Narrow bevel pickguard
- Reflector knobs (might have been changed but they are already there in the photo from '77)
- Stamped "Pat. no." chrome bridge with nylon saddles , and chrome tailpiece
- Body shape with pointy cutaways, meaning until '67
- Crown inlay on headstock is the "chunkier" version (through and including '69)
- Now the curious thing is that the bottom of the crown inlay is just between the middle tuners. meaning it should be '66 or even earlier (???)
Although there have already been numerous discussions on the Les Paul Forum about Les Pauls from 1968, 1969, and 1970—specifically, on how to differentiate one year's set (or mixture) of specifications from another—there doesn't seem to have ever been a definitive 'counterpart' thread about ES-335's from those years. Given that Gibson serial numbers between 1966 and 1969 are a bit, uh, "murky" (to say the least), I thought perhaps there should be such a thread.
Along those lines, below is a random list of late-1960s ES-335 specifications, and related observations and/or questions. Please feel to amend or disagree with any of this, since I'm mainly trying to clarify my own understanding of these specs. As always, any input would be greatly appreciated:
Gibson logo on headstock
- dot appears over "i" (through 1968?)
- dot over "i" disappears (1969)
- dot over "i" reappears (1970 and on)
- "b" and "o" are open (through 1969)
- "b" and "o" are closed (1970 and on)
crown inlay on headstock
There seem to be two versions of this inlay. One is "chunkier" (left) and the other is narrower (right):
....................
The chunkier version seems to have been used through and including 1969. The narrower version seems to first appear in 1969, and then continues through 1970 (and on, presumably?).
The placement of the crown inlay also seems to vary quite a bit (even within each individual year), but in general seems to get lower with each subsequent year, until it "settles" approximately half an inch from the upper end of the truss rod cover in 1970, as the below images illustrate; note the change in the four 1969 images, from the first version of the inlay to the subsequent version:
Label inside bass-side f-hole
Norlin-era rectangular label first appears in 1970; however, earlier-style oval orange label is apparently still seen even after 1970.
Volute
Begins in 1970?
"Made in U.S.A." stamp beneath serial number on back of headstock
Begins in 1970?
Three-piece neck
Begins in 1969? (I've seen at least one 1969 ES-335 that had a three-piece neck with no volute and no "Made in U.S.A." stamp.)
"Witch hat" knobs
In what year do these first replace reflector knobs?
Sure – will do, zorglub!. Sorry for the lapse. I stopped using the Web hosting I had earlier, and those pics are on another computer. Need to go look for them, and should be able to repost the original images from this thread sometime either later today or tomorrow.
Fantastic, many thanks! :salude
