Dickey Betts' "Redtop" Goldtop...a bunch of cool pics!

guitty · Oct 29, 2015

The Fillmore East guitar is the Betts/Toler, definitely. This had the bigsby mark on the top when it has been a Goldtop. After the respray to Cherryburst there were no more bigsby marks. There are no bigsby holes seen on the bottom end due to the finish.

Unbound Dot Neck · Oct 29, 2015

Yikes, water damaged , lifting top and binding, salt water deposits on the frets
Who did what and when ? Needs pro assist.

:salude

Tarcisioo · Oct 30, 2015

asapmaz said:
The OP guitar seems to have the snake bites.

I would say this one has alligator bites

JBLPplayer · Oct 30, 2015

Gad Zooks!! I know it's his guitar and he can do what he wants...

Joe B

PS Don't mix beer and paint thinner. :wah

Big Al · Oct 30, 2015

I thought the "Red Top" guitar was the heavily played GT that was modified several times with screw on whambulatory bridges like the Washburn top mount and others. Used in 80's early 90's ABB shows then painted red? I seem to recall some involvement from Fuchs amp guys in an old thred on this forum. This must be it, don't ya think? How many 58's have a near center seams?

As far as value I'd buy a new Nicky or Donna over that husk.

Maxmc · Oct 30, 2015

Big Al said:
I thought the "Red Top" guitar was the heavily played GT that was modified several times with screw on whambulatory bridges like the Washburn top mount and others. Used in 80's early 90's ABB shows then painted red? I seem to recall some involvement from Fuchs amp guys in an old thred on this forum. This must be it, don't ya think? How many 58's have a near center seams?

As far as value I'd buy a new Nicky or Donna over that husk.

Amen to that. This thing is almost like great grandad's old axe. Two new handles and a new head but it's still great grandad's old axe!

66SuperTremMKIV · Oct 30, 2015

I think Dickie has long forgotten whatever this guitar was. Little value in speculation, and little value in what's left of this guitar.

STROKER · Oct 30, 2015

The owner of the guitar really wants to cash in on the dickey story I would like to see some proof of his ownership otherwise we are just talking about a cool project husk . I would like to hear the real story on the guitar who smashed a 58 goldtop and left it for dead. I've seen the guitar I don't think the fretboard on it has ever been played or is playable.

WBailey · Oct 30, 2015

66SuperTremMKIV said:
I think Dickie has long forgotten whatever this guitar was. Little value in speculation, and little value in what's left of this guitar.

Agreed 100%. This is NOT Goldie ! She is a '57. This is NOT the Toler ( wrong serial )

Last I heard, Dickey still has Goldie, and KNOWS what she's worth ! :ganz

This one, cool STORY.

So, whats a '58 husk with a cool STORY worth ?

I,m with Mapleflame, that scarf joint diminishes all integrity. ( Frankenstein ) :hee

Anybody know what became of the " dumpster " guitar ? :wah

mistersnappy · Oct 30, 2015

WBailey said:
Anybody know what became of the " dumpster " guitar ? :wah

I don't but, don't forget, he played two (at least) Norlin-era Lesters in the ABB: a sunburst with humbuckers and a Goldtop Deluxe with mini-humbuckers.

This makes me wonder what year/serial number range Darkbacks occured in? :hmm I know there were some in '58. If it was/is Dickey's guitar, it *might* be that other Darkback he used in '75-'76.

Or not.

Tarcisioo · Oct 30, 2015

WBailey said:
Anybody know what became of the " dumpster " guitar ? :wah

There was a thread recently of a guy trying to sell something like that, but no proof either

j45 · Oct 31, 2015

WBailey said:
I,m with Mapleflame, that scarf joint diminishes all integrity. ( Frankenstein ) :hee

I'm betting that is not a "scarf" joint repair but rather an ugly break that was simply clamped and glued back......and the way it broke was clean enough that it just happens to "almost" resemble a scarf...but obviously not if you look closer at the lines. I've seen (and owned) scarf joint repairs and also owned factory repaired Les Pauls, with the new neck section that was scarfed to the original neck section and stamped with typical repair serial # font.... and that's not what any looked like. Number one, the lines are jagged like a break that was simply put back in place a re-glued...two, the neck finish is so badly done you can't really be sure of the grain but I don't see a bunch of, if any evidence that it is a different piece of wood. This looks like the break held up pretty clean except for the tip which appears to have been lost in the break. And last, pretty rare to see a scarf repair done with an original donor neck **with serial number! I would bet that is the original neck, all the way up to the serial....simply broken and re-glued...which can be solid as can be.

This is a 50's goldtop with a scarf joint repair:

stevechilders · Nov 3, 2015

That is not his "redtop"...

Here it is being used in Nov 2014... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOF_RYQHXek

and a photo taken shortly after he did the refin himself... around 2000. He is quoted in the Gritz Magazine article on why he did it...

gmann · Nov 3, 2015

66SuperTremMKIV said:
I think Dickie has long forgotten whatever this guitar was. Little value in speculation, and little value in what's left of this guitar.

There's value there but it would take a lot of money to make it a viable player again.

MapleFlame · Nov 4, 2015

j45 said:
I'm betting that is not a "scarf" joint repair but rather an ugly break that was simply clamped and glued back......and the way it broke was clean enough that it just happens to "almost" resemble a scarf...but obviously not if you look closer at the lines. I've seen (and owned) scarf joint repairs and also owned factory repaired Les Pauls, with the new neck section that was scarfed to the original neck section and stamped with typical repair serial # font.... and that's not what any looked like. Number one, the lines are jagged like a break that was simply put back in place a re-glued...two, the neck finish is so badly done you can't really be sure of the grain but I don't see a bunch of, if any evidence that it is a different piece of wood. This looks like the break held up pretty clean except for the tip which appears to have been lost in the break. And last, pretty rare to see a scarf repair done with an original donor neck **with serial number! I would bet that is the original neck, all the way up to the serial....simply broken and re-glued...which can be solid as can be.

This is a 50's goldtop with a scarf joint repair:

That was done very professional, it's obvious all the work on the RED TOP, was not, just look at the board etc...

MapleFlame · Nov 4, 2015

stevechilders said:
That is not his "redtop"...

Here it is being used in Nov 2014... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOF_RYQHXek

and a photo taken shortly after he did the refin himself... around 2000. He is quoted in the Gritz Magazine article on why he did it...

Inlays in the video look late 60's to me. Must be a reboard.

WBailey · Nov 4, 2015

gmann said:
There's value there but it would take a lot of money to make it a viable player again.

So, what do you think it's worth ?

I think the neck is shot. But, so was Greeny. :hmm

Any guesses ? 17K would not buy it.

A '58 husk with a cool story = $ ??,??? +

Or, how about this. A letter from Dickey saying this is the darkback he used in 1975. Any value there ?

For what it's worth; Clapton had over 300 strats at one time. He would send his guitar tech ( Lee Dickson ) out to sell them incognito, so as to avoid this kind of thing.

Point; Clapton and Blackie, Brownie, Cool.

Dickey and Goldie, Cool.

This one ? :hmm Meh, maybe. Whatcha think ?

sws1 · Nov 4, 2015

My logic...

Value of good '58 GT ($100k for easy math)
less 70-75% for neck, refin, extensive damage, etc.
less cost to buy all new plastic and parts ($20k)
less cost to do the refin / repairs ($3k?)

PLUS use by Dickey, but not Fillmore guitar, if proven/signed ($5k)

I'm at $7-12k. Obviously, seller isn't selling to me.

MapleFlame · Nov 4, 2015

It looks like it went from gold to Red and then back to Gold. The drips in the neck pickup area are strange. Many things look very amateurish in repairs. Board and binding look unfinished stage. Maple strip under board looks slightly torn out. The back cracks, do they go all the way through. It reminds me of a Hendrix Strat, smashed on stage or a girlfriend/wife hate crime against guitars lol

MapleFlame · Nov 4, 2015

This is an interesting guitar, late 60's inlays but has 50's binding in horn. Second song he plays. I wonder if it was a reboard. Looks like reflector knobs that has the reflectors out No?
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Dickey Betts' "Redtop" Goldtop...a bunch of cool pics!

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