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what's the verdict on the 60th Anniversary R9s? Did they nail it?

goldtop0

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Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,931
OP is in Wellington and I'll be visiting my home town (Wellington)- just saying- beautiful guitar .

Yep well you're right........... and I didn't check the details of the OP at all........sorry for the inquisition matey.
A very beautacious R9 that one is too:2cool
 

Trans-Am

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Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
4,686
The Historic chase true or not will go on forever and continue as there are only the real thing and we all know that.:salude

Close but no cigar here!:yah
 

NotJeffBeck

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
24
I think they did great. I had been itching to get a Really Good Guitar for about six years but whenever I tried a few CS jobs out at the Hollywood Guitar Center, I thought 'pretty good' but never 'I gotta have this'.
In January this year, I visited Gibson at the NAMM show in Anaheim. They were making a big show of how they were doing just fine despite the bankruptcy and all the other financial problems. They had some CS Les Pauls on the wall that you could take down and play. There was one beautiful R9 there that I didn't want to put back, 'I gotta have this'. I even asked the rep there if I could buy that exact one. He told me it was already spoken for but that they are all made that way now, 'we listen very carefully to what you guys want'. What I got from my visit was that they were really pulling out all the stops to make guitars you just couldn't say no to, to prove that Gibson's not going anywhere despite what has been going around on the internet.
Cut to March, my birthday month. A surprise check came in from a SAG-AFTRA fund I didn't even know I was part of, just about what I could buy a 60th Anniversary with. So I called around and the 2019 Custom Shop Les Pauls the stores had ordered in January were just hitting the stores that week and they were selling fast. On Sunset Boulevard, Sam Ash and Guitar Center are across the street from each other; I was able to try out 7 Custom Shop Les Pauls in two hours. They were all really good and I narrowed it down to three that I tried over and over again in a round robin until it became clear there was one I didn't want to let go of. Especially because another guy was there doing the same thing I was - I didn't want him to get "mine", I gotta have this. It was light, extremely resonant, sounded beautiful unplugged, neck felt great, finish colors were really subtle and good, the pickups were brighter than I expected and unpotted -- slightly microphonic, true to 1959... it even had a quirk - I like idiosyncrasies on a guitar - technically a defect but I liked it then and I like it now. The high E string 'zings' when you start to play above the 10th fret. The adjusting screw for that string's bridge saddle sits too high on the bridge and when the string gets close enough, it makes a zing sound that I like very much and I use it. It's actually a manufacturing defect of the bridge assembly and I'm sure if they had caught it at the factory, they would have replaced the bridge, I'm thankful they did not. I have never owned a real '59 but I have held, played and even borrowed plenty of 50's Les Pauls and 335s over the years, you used to be able to do that before they were worth as much as an apartment building. The 7 CS guitars I tried out in March were all as good as anything I ever played. The same day I also tried out 4 standard production Les Pauls to see if there was that much of a difference. Yes there is.

There are some details about how the guitar is presented that I don't like but they are just me and how I am. I don't like the weird vanilla smell they add to the lacquer. That's not what lacquer smells like. Lacquer smells like nail polish, like banana oil. This smells like a scented gift candle for a girlfriend - boo. The case, yeah I get that it's a fun little time capsule fantasy to have a Lifton case that is even printed to look old and worn, but even the factory had to pack it with foam wedges to protect the guitar in transit. I could do without that and would be perfectly happy with the TKL case that the rest of the series gets; it's a better case. And the fake aging turns me off. It's 'lightly' aged but I just can't get with the rusted screws, tarnished pickup covers and other metal surfaces. It appears that for patina, they just left out the final polishing stage for the finish. That's OK, I'll have it polished up to the level I like after a few string changes and cleanings. But the guitar itself - the wood, the electronics, the neck, the frets, the feel, the sound... it IS a great guitar, a keeper.

I'd be interested to see what you think about yours -- similar thoughts? Disagree with my taste? Did yours arrive yet? What do you think?
 
Last edited:

latestarter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
4,173
Another “kiwi” here...my ‘19 is fantastic.

cr4hpVD_d.jpg

meh, that’s tiny. I’ll try again non phone later
 

KDunn99

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Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
27
The tops on originals were glued with Phenol-Formaldehyde Resin. NOT hide glue.
 

Gold Tone

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Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
6,825
The tops on originals were glued with Phenol-Formaldehyde Resin. NOT hide glue.

Though hide glue is not historically correct it’s a perfect facsimile as it dries glass hard like P-F resin. The key change was moving away from titebond as it doesn’t cure the same way and remains a rubbery sound dampener
 

Big Al

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Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Though hide glue is not historically correct it’s a perfect facsimile as it dries glass hard like P-F resin. The key change was moving away from titebond as it doesn’t cure the same way and remains a rubbery sound dampener

They are not the same.
The rubber tone damper thing has never proven true and all evidence points to the opposite. It is an article of blind faith regurgitated by true believers because it seems true to the congregation.
 

NotJeffBeck

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
24
They are not the same.
The rubber tone damper thing has never proven true and all evidence points to the opposite. It is an article of blind faith regurgitated by true believers because it seems true to the congregation.
I found this article about hide glue / fish glue and aliphatic resin glue such as Titebond:
http://esomogyi.com/titebond-vs-hide-glue/
The author points out that it is white PVC "Elmer's" glue that doesn't ever really get crispy hard, that might be how squeeze bottle glue got its reputation for being too rubbery for luthier work.
And Titebond has introduced hide glue too, but it's a new type that doesn't require heating:
http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/9e9995b4-08eb-4fc6-8254-c47daa20f8ed
 

Gold Tone

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Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
6,825
They are not the same.
The rubber tone damper thing has never proven true and all evidence points to the opposite. It is an article of blind faith regurgitated by true believers because it seems true to the congregation.

Here’s Al! Lol

It’s not been disproven fella

It’s the same thing folks...titebond is not, it’s rubber.

Regurgitated truth right here.
 

MeHereNow

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
677
I have my trusty bourbonburst 2009 R8 aka "Brock" for over 10 years, played it for over 10 years, in heat/cold/dry/damp/, you name it enviroments.
It's still in 1 piece, sustains like a maniac unplugged as well as plugged in from day 1.
I removed some glue gobs in the neck PU cavity at the tenon.. those glue gobs where hard, reeeeaaaal hard, far from "rubbery".
Now.. my dark bourbon fade 2018 R8 aka "Willem" is a fully hide glue construction and get's the most attention for the last year i've owned it.
Mostly because i gifted "Brock" to my 10 yo son to provide him with a GOOD guitar now that he's starting to play.
But guess what?
i've played "Willem" intensivly since i got him (26th september 2018) in heat/cold/dry/damp/, you name it enviroments.
It's still in 1 piece, sustains like a maniac unplugged as well as plugged in from day 1.

So what's the difference in hide glue constructed guitars vs Titebond?

Squat..

They both glue.. it's glue! that's the only purpose they fullfil!
Theyre not tone-enhancers/dampers, they need to keep 2 pieces of wood together, and they BOTH do a fine job at it.
 

renderit

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Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
Here’s Al! Lol

It’s not been disproven fella

It’s the same thing folks...titebond is not, it’s rubber.

Regurgitated truth right here.

Hmm.

Collings uses titebond.

I guess I'll have to throw out all mine.

Not.
 

Gold Tone

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Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
6,825
Hmm.

Collings uses titebond.

I guess I'll have to throw out all mine.

Not.

Why would you take from a comment that two glues are different that your guitars are worthless? Your post is very bizzare...

Much the same as the previous poster to you...are you gents looking for issues in your instruments that don’t exist. I’ll happily take them from you and give them the respect they deserve
 

MeHereNow

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
677
The key change was moving away from titebond as it doesn’t cure the same way and remains a rubbery sound dampener


It's not a "rubbery sound dampener" it's a glue that dries up hard as nails


Why would you take from a comment that two glues are different that your guitars are worthless? Your post is very bizzare...

Because you stated titebond is a "rubbery sound dampener" in which therefore you implie that guitars glued with titebond are to be seen as toneless instruments.
If you did'nt implie that and did'nt want people to interpret that they are, then i wonder what that comment DID aplie to.


Much the same as the previous poster to you...are you gents looking for issues in your instruments that don’t exist. I’ll happily take them from you and give them the respect they deserve

We don't have issues with our instruments.
I typed earlier :"I have my trusty bourbonburst 2009 R8 aka "Brock" for over 10 years, played it for over 10 years, in heat/cold/dry/damp/, you name it enviroments.
It's still in 1 piece, sustains like a maniac unplugged as well as plugged in from day 1.


Brock is a 2009 fully Titebond glued guitar.

"Now.. my dark bourbon fade 2018 R8 aka "Willem" is a fully hide glue construction and get's the most attention for the last year i've owned it.
i've played "Willem" intensivly since i got him (26th september 2018) in heat/cold/dry/damp/, you name it enviroments.
It's still in 1 piece, sustains like a maniac unplugged as well as plugged in from day 1.
"

We are fine with our instruments and love them.
YOU seem to make an issue that does'nt exist about our instruments beeing not up to par as they are titebond construction.

Closing: what is that line

I’ll happily take them from you and give them the respect they deserve
about?

"You'll happilly take.." ?

First, the only thing you'll get from me is a few lines of text in a forum.

Secondly, you won't be "happily" .. they are guitars with titebond.. titebond is boo, rubbery, tonedampening as you keep stating.
Now, that's guitars you don't want right?

And last, .. how do you even have the nerve to implie we don't respect our beloved guitars?
I bought "Brock" august 12th 2009, ring a bell that date?
My first historic i could afford after selling all others guitars i owned.
coincidence maybe, but that guitar was meant to be mine on that day.
A month later my oldest son was born.
2 things short after another that are very, VERY precious to me.
Brock saw countless stages, countries, played every genre possible and i know every ding, dent, scratch wearmark on it.. because I made it.
I'm not materialistic in any way, but that guitar is my most precious material thing i own..
It will never leave this family.
And it doesnt.. i gifted it to my 10 yo son on his birthday last september.

It will continue to have dents, sctratches etc because he will play it from now on and because it's a superbly good example of how a Les Paul should look, sound and play.






 

Gold Tone

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
6,825
It's not a "rubbery sound dampener" it's a glue that dries up hard as nails
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Because you stated titebond is a "rubbery sound dampener" in which therefore you implie that guitars glued with titebond are to be seen as toneless instruments.
If you did'nt implie that and did'nt want people to interpret that they are, then i wonder what that comment DID aplie to.




We don't have issues with our instruments.
I typed earlier :"I have my trusty bourbonburst 2009 R8 aka "Brock" for over 10 years, played it for over 10 years, in heat/cold/dry/damp/, you name it enviroments.
It's still in 1 piece, sustains like a maniac unplugged as well as plugged in from day 1.


Brock is a 2009 fully Titebond glued guitar.

"Now.. my dark bourbon fade 2018 R8 aka "Willem" is a fully hide glue construction and get's the most attention for the last year i've owned it.
i've played "Willem" intensivly since i got him (26th september 2018) in heat/cold/dry/damp/, you name it enviroments.
It's still in 1 piece, sustains like a maniac unplugged as well as plugged in from day 1.
"

We are fine with our instruments and love them.
YOU seem to make an issue that does'nt exist about our instruments beeing not up to par as they are titebond construction.

Closing: what is that line


about?

"You'll happilly take.." ?

First, the only thing you'll get from me is a few lines of text in a forum.

Secondly, you won't be "happily" .. they are guitars with titebond.. titebond is boo, rubbery, tonedampening as you keep stating.
Now, that's guitars you don't want right?

And last, .. how do you even have the nerve to implie we don't respect our beloved guitars?
I bought "Brock" august 12th 2009, ring a bell that date?
My first historic i could afford after selling all others guitars i owned.
coincidence maybe, but that guitar was meant to be mine on that day.
A month later my oldest son was born.
2 things short after another that are very, VERY precious to me.
Brock saw countless stages, countries, played every genre possible and i know every ding, dent, scratch wearmark on it.. because I made it.
I'm not materialistic in any way, but that guitar is my most precious material thing i own..
It will never leave this family.
And it doesnt.. i gifted it to my 10 yo son on his birthday last september.

It will continue to have dents, sctratches etc because he will play it from now on and because it's a superbly good example of how a Les Paul should look, sound and play.







Sucks when people read into something you wrote incorrectly doesn’t it?

:hmm
 

NotJeffBeck

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
24
Guys -- did anybody take a look at that link?
http://esomogyi.com/titebond-vs-hide-glue/

Titebond dries hard. The 'rubbery' association seems to have come from the older, white PVA "Elmer's" glue that did set up to a bendy, flexible, 'rubbery'? condition.
The biggest difference to a repairman or luthier, between hide glue and titebond is that it's very easy to get hide glue joints to separate cleanly. Titebond soaks into the wood grain and there is always some degree of splitting when titebond joints are separated.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
Gibson has been building very good Les Pauls at the Custom Shop for a long time. But it is false logic to assume that perfectly correct specs make for the best sounding Les Pauls. The materials used to build the guitar are the most critical parts of the equation.

My all time favorite is the 2004 Gary Rossington Les Paul I purchased new at Music Machine. It was a rare example where everything came together and resulted in a fantastic sounding guitar that played like butter. It weighs around 9.6 pounds and features the most beautiful brownish-red mahogany I have seen on a recent Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul. So what if Gibson used Titebond to glue the neck. :dang

I would not overlook examples constructed at any point during the Custom Shop run commencing in 1993.
 

pqs

Active member
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
109
The tops on originals were glued with Phenol-Formaldehyde Resin. NOT hide glue.

That’s also my understanding. Saw a video of a guy authenticating a vintage 59 Les Paul and showing the difference between the phenol-formaldehyde resin and hide glue.

Anyways, I absolutely love my 60th Anniversary R9. It’s the best guitar I’ve ever played. I’m not saying they are necessarily better than the 2017s and 2018s, just that I really bonded with mine in a way that I haven’t with any other guitar, including other 60th Anniversary R9s.

As for the neck profile, I always heard that 59 LPs necks weren’t on average as chunky as some of the older R9s. You could find ‘59 LPs with necks in the same ballpark as the older R9s, but they were far in between. At least that’s what I’ve learned from people experienced in vintage instruments.

Personally I really like the new 2018 and 2019 necks. I like the 2013-2015 necks, but I just like the 2018-2019 better. To me R0s necks are too thin, but the newer R9 necks really hit the spot, not too thin, but not too thick either.
 

pqs

Active member
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
109
Regarding the glue, would it be fair to say that the crystallization of P-F resin is more similar to hide glue that it is to titebond? Not necessarily harder than titebond, but dried hide glue at leas visually looks similar to dried P-F resin (there is a difference in color). I’m agnostic as to whether it affects the guitar in any utilitarian way. Just curious.
 
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