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Does wax potting destroy PAF tone ??

Skoorbdooh

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Aug 8, 2005
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184
Ahhh Eddie. The guy who couldn´t rewire a strat style guitar (hence the one volume knob frankenstein) but he re-wound a PAF and potted it to get his tone. Not sure which one of those I believe. Don´t get me wrong, anybody who knows me knows that I think Ed is one of (if not) the greatest talent(s) alive. I just get tired of the BS and wonder where "The truth" is.
 

roadrunner

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Aug 25, 2001
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6,835
Sorry for the dramatic headline, just thought it would get your attention, ha ha !
Seriously though, if a pickup is made in all respects to capture the elusive tone of a great PAF, can wax potting have an adverse effect on achieving that end?

I say this as I was dissappointed to find the Burstbuckers in my R7 were wax potted, and have since found that only 'aftermarket' purchased Bustbuckers now come as standard without wax potting, why did Gibson do this?

To answer your question precisely...

Gibson pots the stock pickups to keep the guys that play with a lot of gain happy. It's a "cover all the bases" move to keep customer complaints down; because the first guy that plugs his Rwhatever into his Mesa/Marshall 35 knob, 6 channel, Super-Wonder-RockGrinder-5000watt-GainMaster Double stack in his bedroom, turns everything up to deafen the neighbors at the end of the block a quarter mile away... and gets the least little bit of squeal out of his pickups, then gets on the internet and whines that his guitar sucks... Well,

That guys sets off a chain of like complaints to the company by other bedroom heros with the same setup... and Gibson would rather not deal with all that... hence, potted pickups.
 

Sol

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Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Thanks, good thread.
Ill continue to use unpotted pickups, there is something to this, even though I can only hear this at higher volume levels, and as a blues based player Im not using rectifier levels of gain anyway, and dont have feedback issues, the burstbucker's get very close to the only genuine PAF I ever heard up close, although Im sure some builder has got closer to that sound than Gibson has, if youve a name feel free to reveal all, because Im always looking on my personal tonequest, arent we all?
 

Drawrein

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Jan 2, 2005
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I'd like to do a lie detector test on the Rev. and EVH and see which pegs out the needle harder. Face it, most of these guys won't give the straight on tone since its their rice bowl and they love their endorsement $. I am surprised at how close mouthed their techs are though, they must sign a contract.

D
 

les strat

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Aug 22, 2004
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I'd like to do a lie detector test on the Rev. and EVH and see which pegs out the needle harder. Face it, most of these guys won't give the straight on tone since its their rice bowl and they love their endorsement $. I am surprised at how close mouthed their techs are though, they must sign a contract.

D

Don't forget Page.
 

Black58

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Oct 28, 2005
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It's all a combo of talent and equipment trial and error. I'm certain EVERYONE here has made their own little discoveries that they do not wish to share and they shouldn't, either. I guess, when yer famous and some weirdo with a tape recorder is in yer face and won't go away, it's best to give 'em something interesting to chew on so that ya can finally go enjoy a good shit that you've been waiting on for half an hour!
 

ronstrosity

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 27, 2007
Messages
47
I'd like to do a lie detector test on the Rev. and EVH and see which pegs out the needle harder. Face it, most of these guys won't give the straight on tone since its their rice bowl and they love their endorsement $. I am surprised at how close mouthed their techs are though, they must sign a contract.

D

My vote is for Ed. I remember in his interview in Guitar Player mag: when asked about his solo on "On Fire" Ed claimed he just winged it on the spot in the studio as if it were a one take masterpiece. Then I started to collect bootlegs of old Van Halen stuff and they were playing that song at least two years before they put it on the record and there is Ed playing the solo note for note to what wound up on their debut album. He lied about almost everything he ever talked about in interviews in those days. I especially like his story on his use of the Variac.


GP: Did you plan the solo in “On Fire”?

EVH: No. It’s funny -- I wanted to do a melodic solo and the guys go, “Pretend you’re John McLaughlin!” So then that solo came out. I don’t even know what key I’m playing in! I just started playing and it fit perfect. That’s how a lot of it works -- totally spontaneous. It’s not like I decided, “I’m going to start here and end up there.”
 

DannyBoy

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Nov 23, 2003
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Wax potting reduces microphonics. When those are reduced/removed, the perception can be less dynamics and high end...

Much the same way that many people mistake the hiss of low quality resistors as presence/high end articulation in vintage amps.

Why did Gibson wax pot their pickups- because the majority of live musicians don't enjoy microphonic feedback; or having to mash down on their pickup cover to stop the squealing...
 

Leña_Costoso

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Jul 24, 2005
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If the microphonics were phase opposed to the high end, then you could be getting more sparkle by potting. It would not take too much to kill the upper end with anything... so the supposition of phase alignment being the motivator of high end attenuation, holds.

Thing is... its totally .... case by case if best.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
81
Ahhh Eddie. The guy who couldn´t rewire a strat style guitar (hence the one volume knob frankenstein) but he re-wound a PAF and potted it to get his tone. Not sure which one of those I believe. Don´t get me wrong, anybody who knows me knows that I think Ed is one of (if not) the greatest talent(s) alive. I just get tired of the BS and wonder where "The truth" is.

It's probably way simpler. I read in an article that Eddie had the same problems as many guitarists have and tried to solved them with the least amount of money involved.

1. He liked the tremolo arm of his strat but the band thought the guitar sounded thin. At the same time he had a LP Junior which he liked very much but that P90 hummed like crazy. So the solution was to put a humbucker from a 335 on the strat. There you go - wiggle stick and fatter tone. I doubt that Eddie himself rewound the pickup but he may have potted it.

2. The strat with the Fender wiggle stick did not stay in tune for the dive bombs - here comes the Floyd Rose.

3. The 100 W Marshall was too loud for the club gigs. The solution was a resistive load off the main amp and into separate power amps.

So it basically comes down to function. Same with potting pickups. What good is the magic of an unpotted pickup if you cannot use it with the gain and loudness levels you want/need because it squeals like a banshee? The only answer is potting or getting a different pickup that sounds the same/similar and does not squeal. On the other hand I use one set of pickups which I know is not potted and yet it does not squeal. If pickups squeal at low volume and medium gain they just were not made right.
 

Johnny Q

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Mar 8, 2003
Messages
511
You shouldn't need to ot a PAF even with a cover so long as it's been assembled well.


I have heard this from literally 4 different boutique winders and 800 plus bucks later, they all went the way of ebay due to uncontrollable squealing.
 

Minibucker

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Jan 12, 2003
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How much gain do you use? I take it PAF's weren't really designed/meant for Soldano/triple rectifier levels.
 

thejaf

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Oct 27, 2006
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So it basically comes down to function. Same with potting pickups. What good is the magic of an unpotted pickup if you cannot use it with the gain and loudness levels you want/need because it squeals like a banshee? The only answer is potting or getting a different pickup that sounds the same/similar and does not squeal. On the other hand I use one set of pickups which I know is not potted and yet it does not squeal. If pickups squeal at low volume and medium gain they just were not made right.

Exactly. I love my Voodoo '59 set, but in a live band setting they squealed badly as soon as I stopped playing (even in between chord chanes, or song stops). I potted them myself and while I noticed a SLIGHT loss in dynamics and complexity, the feedback was eliminated.

FWIW, I noticed more tone effects from the different rooms I played in than any pickup waxing.
 

In The Light

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Mar 31, 2005
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609
That said, Angus Young used potted pickups back in the 70's and he had a very articulate sound (Listen to "Ride On" solo).

That was 1976 - what are you basing your assertion on regarding Angus' pickups being potted? Thanks.
 

beck-ola

Les Paul Froum Member
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Aug 22, 2006
Messages
983
Potted or unpotted, tonally it doesn't matter at all if you're a good player with a good touch. If it's feeding back do something about it.

Most people including the majority, if not all members of guitar gear forums can't even say for sure when someone is using a tele or a les paul on recordings, so a potted pickup isn't all that important.
 

jms6668

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Nov 14, 2003
Messages
70
Potted or unpotted, tonally it doesn't matter at all if you're a good player with a good touch. If it's feeding back do something about it.

Most people including the majority, if not all members of guitar gear forums can't even say for sure when someone is using a tele or a les paul on recordings, so a potted pickup isn't all that important.

I'm on your side of the fence. Well put.
 

Black58

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Oct 28, 2005
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Potted or unpotted, tonally it doesn't matter at all if you're a good player with a good touch. If it's feeding back do something about it.

Most people including the majority, if not all members of guitar gear forums can't even say for sure when someone is using a tele or a les paul on recordings, so a potted pickup isn't all that important.

True, true. I think it's mainly for the player, though. Tryin' to harness somethin' that's out of control. It's a bit of a pain in the ass, but, once ya figure out how to do it, ya really don't wanna go back! It feels like YOU are plugged into the wall, picks up EVERYTHING ya do, VERY inspiring! :jim
 
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