My new 1958 les paull replica

renderit said:

Harsh words with a definition that fits though. You gotta give me that.

I AM open to other words if you wish to make me politically correct.

And what do you know of their intent? You read minds? Their intent was to make a no holds barred replica. And they did a very good job. They are making money off of it.

That by definition is wrong...

And I will STILL buy you a beer! We can ease your suffering and injuries with a pint or four!

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NYCBURST said:

Yeah, I'll give that.... I'm up for lifting a couple of pints..

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Pellman73 said:

We should try to do it!

Maybe we should all try to meet up and do songbirds or have a meet at one of the big guitars shows

I did try to get some traction for a golf thing here in Pinehurst... Golf and Guitar hang kind of thing-- that did not get much tho!

would love to meet some of you guys in person

while we quibble about some of this stuff and it gets heated in the grand scheme of things we have a lot more in common amongst ourselves here than we do with the rest of the world out there!

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Pellman73 said:

I would like to chime in here but I've been reluctant to, as I feel, unlike what JPP-1 said -- that there HAVE been long knives here (or perhaps short jabby ones) and no I don't get the sense that the people who are against replicas will even give in to one merit

I felt this thread devolved into a Trump Twitter account, if we can bring in Trump. It was just a lot of name calling and throwing around disparaging words about replicas, replica owners, and replica makers. Fakers, frauds, fools, thieves. It is really not that interesting and its just sandbox infantile stuff.

What is MORE interesting, and what I would HOPE for was what Ed A was alluding to. Some of the philosophical deeper discussion about why they exist, why we (and as a Gil yaron acolyte I'll put myself in the WE category) own and play these guitars.

If we can put aside any of the morality or legality (and that means thinking and discussing this rationally-- which as Ed A was saying is NOT POSSIBLE for some people because their opinions are so strong-- like on Trump) then perhaps we could have what a real Forum should be all about-- people expressing their take on a subject, thoughtfully and respectfully exchanged

I want to give MY story here, because it also addresses JPP-1's point about some of the better Gibson offerings.

I'm going to compare these guitars to eras of movies. AGAIN THIS IS ONE MAN'S EXPERIENCE

2003 I buy my first real Gibson les paul with moonlighting earnings from working in an emergency room while training to be a general surgeon knowing it will be years before I have the money to buy one again. It was an extremely extravagant purchase at the time but it was so great. I drove down to Sam Ash in richmond, picked a Honeyburst with the 50's neck (that year you could get 50's or 60's neck) off the wall and cherished it for the next 12 years. It weighed a shade under 10 lbs!

That guitar I'd call a Talkie. A black and white movie that just had gotten words you could hear

2016 I got two Gibson Les Pauls

I got a 2003 Duane Allman Hotlanta (which was a grail guitar for me... at the time (who knew Grails can change :rofl)
and a CC 15 Greg Martin (which had all sorts of mojo as it had been owned by Derek St Holmes and Slash had actually played it live at one of the Whitford/St Holmes gig.)

Both of those guitars were amazing! But were still kind of missing something. I even put Wizz Hotlanta pickups IN hotlanta and I had regular Wizzers in the CC15.... even though these guitars were light years ahead of the 2003 honey burst they still were not all that inspiring and never really sounded like les pauls sounded to me in all the classic sounds (Beano, early ZZ top, Joe Walsh)

these guitars were like color movies with music. Way more to them in all aspects than the honey burst but I was still left searching

I worked my way up to a Green Lemon with Braz Board from the run late 2017. A grail guitar I THOUGHT.

it was an incredible guitar. maybe we can call that one a 3-d movie.... was close. felt great, looked great, and sounded great and sounded pretty much what I thought what les pauls sounded like

but I was still searching

speaking of searching why do you think people switch out Throbaks and Wizzers and Ox4s and all these aftermarket pickups into their Gibson Les Pauls? I think its because they are experiencing what IVE experienced-- the experience of playing the les paul just IS NOT QUITE WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR- OR TRYING TO HEAR.

so after reading about the Gil Yaron replicas and reading his TDPRI (or part of it... its LONG) build thread I jumped at the chance to get my first Gil a year ago and actually TRADED the hotlanta for it.

Well from pulling that guitar out of its case, fondling it, plugging it in and stringing my first chord, then playing my first notes in all the three different pup positions its been over for me

That guitar is like going to a 3-D IMAX movie. Everything comes to life, and you are so fucking delighted by playing it you giggle. You want to run around and tell everyone. you want to run to the top of a hill like Julie Andrews and spin around and Sing 'THE HILLS ARE ALIVE!"

FINALLY you say-- THIS is what all the hype is about!

The guitar is so good that when another came up I sold gob loads of stuff to get my SECOND ONE.

I don't own any Gibson les pauls anymore

If I was a multimillionaire you bet your ass the FIRST thing I"d do is get a real burst. But that aint happening. So for me, I wanted the closest thing to the real thing and from MY EXPERIENCE that has been playing replicas, not what Gibson has had to offer

So that's been my experience. is there A POSSIBLE PLACEBO EFFECT? I don't know... I doubt it.

now that means I've played and owned three Gibson Custom shops (the Hotlanta, the CC15, and the Green Lemon w Braz board). I've played a smattering of others in music stores. There may be some that are just as good that I've never played. mine may have been duds. A pro player I know played them and thought they were great. guitars-- they ARE great guitars (actually I've tried to buy the Greg Martin back. that one I regret getting rid of) I don't know-- but I'm just saying from my experience the search was over once I played a not-gibson les paul.

and to me the most important thing, in this very short life we live, is to get as much joy out of it and as much joy out of our guitars.

I feel I"ve contributed to Gibson's bottom line. What have they ever done for me? My gils do not have a Gibson headstock so they can't be mistaken as real. And to be honest I like that they are just a little different up there. I'm not sure I'd want one that says Gibson-- and maybe thats just from being here and my opinion my have been swayed a little on that subject. Otherwise knowing about slash and his derrig I would have thought "who cares. its kind of cool. maybe a little illicit --- and isn't Rock n Roll about saying FU to the man?"

I would say that until you've played one of these guitars you should reserve judgement. At least have an informed opinion.

does it Spark Joy ? or not.....

discussions about legality, morality, all those other things should be a separate subject (if we can do that). but getting down to the nitty gritty of why we own them is very simple. they kick ass and get us closer to playing a real burst (in our opinions) than anything Gibson has to offer us since 1960

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JPP-1 said:

I'm not sure why you specifically singled me out in your thread as I never said anyone owning a replica was a poser, a thief or otherwise.

As the owner of a few nice watches I can say replicas of those watches are vociferously despised on the watch forums with much more vigor than anything I've seen here. As you said about Gibson, I don't feel I owe Rolex or Panerai any special allegiance. I also have no ill will towards someone seeking out a replica because they find the affordably of those watches daunting. What I find objectionable is when the degree of detail is so great that these replicas can be used to defraud an unsuspecting buyer not to mention making the used market place incredibly treacherous.

You have repeatedly stated of the historics you've owned that you prefer the Yaron. I will be the first one to say that a small builder: Bartlett, Yaron, Gustuvsson can put more care into choosing tone woods, pickups, set up, so the probability of what I like to call a happy accident favors the small builder vs the larger manufacturer. However every guitar is different, no two Yaron's, Historics or 1959 Les Pauls sound the same, so the only way we could resolve whether Historic A is better, different or worse than Yaron B is via a hands on test of each guitar and that test will only tell you about those specific guitars.

I too can also buy a replica or boutique guitar if I so choose. However, my experience is different than yours, after having the distinct good fortune of experiencing a wide assortment of high end boutique, custom shop and vintage guitars over the years, I have developed an internal baseline of what I want out of a Les Paul, Strat, etc. I can tell pretty quickly if a guitar meets that threshold. Beyond that threshold to me it's more about differences and preferences and not so much better or worse.

The one thing you do seem to conflate in your post is that nobody is questioning your right to seek out a guitar that meets your tonal and/or specification preferences. However, you chose one that infringes on Gibson's intellectual property and some people here on the LPF find that objectionable. For me it's not my place to judge. I am neither a Burst owner or actively buying and selling. My only objection is the utility of such instruments to be used to defraud. I think there should be a way to limit this without otherwise affecting the appeal of these guitars.

That's basically it. If you find yourself in the NYC metro area and feel strong, lol, we can put our guitars in the ring with my selection of vintage and boutique amps and see who is Rocky and who is Apollo. Enjoy your guitars Pellman73.

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jimeh77 said:

Is this the longest thread ever?

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jimeh77 said:

Too bad he made the guitar for a random Chinese guy so he got so much heat here.

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jimeh77 said:

Is this the longest thread ever?

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AA00475Bassman said:

Im sure if there is so much interest someone will start a fake Forum !!!

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Tom Wittrock said:

It's probably already been done. But since it is fake, how would you know? :ganz :hee

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marshall1987 said:

The way I see it this guitar belongs in the category of an "unlicensed copy" of a Gibson Les Paul. It's not a fake or counterfeit as others have stated. It's an unlicensed copy.

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AA00475Bassman said:

Thanks Tom believe me I needed humor this morning !

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